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Old 08-09-2010, 11:12 AM   #31
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Maybe we'll see Buells in dealerships that sell Bombardier products soon. Wouldn't that be poke in HD's eye?
That's my bet...
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Old 08-09-2010, 12:04 PM   #32
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You could substitute the word "Sportster" for "Buell" and be just as accurate at far too many HD dealerships. Probably "Vrod" too. If so many dealers didn't care about Sportsters then what made HD think they would sell Buells?

Maybe we'll see Buells in dealerships that sell Bombardier products soon. Wouldn't that be poke in HD's eye?

I go on some Harley enthusiast sites for grins and one thread that got started was "Do you think Harley will ever build a watercooled bike".............

It's a different world my friend, believe me.
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Old 08-09-2010, 12:05 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Kevin_Duke View Post
That's my bet...
That's just the Canadian in you, eh?
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Old 08-09-2010, 12:13 PM   #34
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I go on some Harley enthusiast sites for grins and one thread that got started was "Do you think Harley will ever build a watercooled bike".............

It's a different world my friend, believe me.
Yeah, Man! If only they'd design an' build a good, strong, Water-cooled engine, or a Sport-bike or sumptin', THEN I'd buy a Harley!

I'm tired of all these oil-leakin', carbureted, 62-hp-dinosaur-age-1970's crap they make!
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Old 08-09-2010, 01:05 PM   #35
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Yeah, Man! If only they'd design an' build a good, strong, Water-cooled engine, or a Sport-bike or sumptin', THEN I'd buy a Harley!

I'm tired of all these oil-leakin', carbureted, 62-hp-dinosaur-age-1970's crap they make!

Boy no kidding, I sit backwards on mine so no one will see me coming
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Old 08-09-2010, 01:20 PM   #36
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That's just the Canadian in you, eh?
Perhaps. But hopefully more logic than that. If BRP was willing to buy Buell then they have an interest in that market. Having access to Rotax power is the key ingredient. Now that Erik has plenty of experience building bikes around that 1125 motor, it wouldn't be much of a hurdle to create a new chassis around it. Perhaps Erik's working on it as we type...
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Old 08-09-2010, 01:41 PM   #37
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That's exactly what the "Loss-Leader" IS, Moke - it's NOT just about the money.

At only about $12k a shot, do you suppose that the Big Four actually sell enough of their Superbikes and Supersports to completely FUND all their Racing and Development costs?

Hells No.

Amortized-out, they probably LOSE more on each bike than what they sell it for off the showroom-floor.

THAT is a "Loss-Leader": Something to get you in the showroom, where hopefully if you gag on the pricetag of it (which is Cheap at Twice the Price, if you factor ALL the expenses it took to arrive at that bike!), you might opt instead to get a bread-and-butta' bike, which has FAR-less development in it - Hint: Americans Love(d) Cruisers - how much time and money do you suppose they spend developing the suspension, tweaking the frame, or endurance-testing the engine and tranny on a Cruiser?

Case in Point: Last year, many Racing programs went by the wayside from the Big Four. Sales slumped, and sales of their top sport-bikes might have dropped 50% - but 50% of 14,000 total units per-annum won't fund a Race Program any worse than 100% of 14,000 units.......
So what's your point racing costs alot, you may not make money selling sportbikes, it's risky. Nothing new there. It's a risk taken and one that's succeeded for quite some time until case in point the economy took a dump. Not becuase a Superbike cost 12k. Some bikes are only for those who can afford to ride them, you know like Harley, Ducat, BMW.
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Old 08-09-2010, 01:44 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by The_AirHawk View Post
That's exactly what the "Loss-Leader" IS, Moke - it's NOT just about the money.

At only about $12k a shot, do you suppose that the Big Four actually sell enough of their Superbikes and Supersports to completely FUND all their Racing and Development costs?
Maybe not, but sportbikes sell in decent volume. Yamaha's latest recall reveals that Yamaha sold about 54,000 R6s since 2006.
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Old 08-09-2010, 04:48 PM   #39
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Maybe not, but sportbikes sell in decent volume. Yamaha's latest recall reveals that Yamaha sold about 54,000 R6s since 2006.
But that's my point - if they were being completely "honest" about the pricing on their bikes, every supersport would cost $25,000 or more, every superbike $35k, and every time it was "updated" the price would jump $3,000-$5,000.

These bikes are the Big Four's "Technological Showcase". They take an ass-rogering on every one they sell. But they do so willingly, just to get you in the door - like toothpaste and tampons, oil and filters at Mal~Wart. Hence "Loss-Leader".

"We're Losing Money on every one - but we'll make it up in VOLUME......!"
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Old 08-10-2010, 07:20 AM   #40
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HD management has received quite a bashing already. Tsk tsk.

As for me, they can screw up any sportsbike business they like and flush millions down the toilet in the process. I don’t care. As long as they take care of their God given core business which is building the biggest baddest mo-fo cruisers. Which they are not. Everyone else is.

Big Hog is turning into a joke. Over there in Gringolandia everybody is so hyped up by the domestic brand that you don’t even see it. But here in the real world (= Europe) it’s just a foreign import and the message is getting increasingly clear. HD loses in cc, hp and torq and it loses in every damn comparo it’s ever put in. It’s too small to run in big dog comparos. It is becoming increasingly embarrassing to ride one.

- cruiz-euro
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