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Old 08-08-2010, 05:45 PM   #21
MOKE1K
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Originally Posted by Buzglyd View Post
I'm sure MV hasn't had much luck with them either.

Just because someone builds great sport bikes, doesn't mean they're making any money at it.
MV have luck with who Harley? Pfffft that's a no brainer. Besides with racing comes passion and some times that don't pay the bills. IMO the Italians have a lot more passion then ole Harley. Imo.
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Old 08-08-2010, 05:50 PM   #22
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Exactly. The GSXR-1000/R1/ZX-10/CBR1000RR are all the "Loss Leader" bikes of the Big Four.
Sometimes it's not always just about the money. Loss leader,... Explain that one!
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Old 08-08-2010, 06:02 PM   #23
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MV have luck with who Harley? Pfffft that's a no brainer. Besides with racing comes passion and some times that don't pay the bills. IMO the Italians have a lot more passion then ole Harley. Imo.
HD used to have passion for racing. They let it fall off when they got in trouble in the 60s and never really tried to re-ignite it. Now they're just a boutique dealer that sells motorcycles on the side and they hire someone who knows nothing about motorcycles to run the company. Sad. Triumph managed to come back from the dead and even compete.
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Old 08-08-2010, 06:02 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by MOKE1K View Post
MV have luck with who Harley? Pfffft that's a no brainer. Besides with racing comes passion and some times that don't pay the bills. IMO the Italians have a lot more passion then ole Harley. Imo.
Most of us here on the old MO board thought the purchase of MV was pretty stupid. A great way to make 100 million selling Italian motorcycles is to start with 200 million.

Passion is a great way to lose a pile of cash and let's face it, entry level riders aren't buying MV Agustas.

I understand the Italian bike thing Moke. I've owned two Ducatis and one MV Agusta.
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Old 08-08-2010, 06:21 PM   #25
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Most of us here on the old MO board thought the purchase of MV was pretty stupid. A great way to make 100 million selling Italian motorcycles is to start with 200 million.

Passion is a great way to lose a pile of cash and let's face it, entry level riders aren't buying MV Agustas.

I understand the Italian bike thing Moke. I've owned two Ducatis and one MV Agusta.
Well I to thought it was quite frivolous. But even more so to not to make any money off the deal. Specially in these times.

Just becuase you may have owned one doesn't make you understand the front mans risks when swallowing such a huge do or die purchase. The company has made a strong name for itself in the past decade, they will find their way if not then
that just makes the competition stronger.
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Old 08-08-2010, 06:48 PM   #26
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Sometimes it's not always just about the money. Loss leader,... Explain that one!
That's exactly what the "Loss-Leader" IS, Moke - it's NOT just about the money.

At only about $12k a shot, do you suppose that the Big Four actually sell enough of their Superbikes and Supersports to completely FUND all their Racing and Development costs?

Hells No.

Amortized-out, they probably LOSE more on each bike than what they sell it for off the showroom-floor.

THAT is a "Loss-Leader": Something to get you in the showroom, where hopefully if you gag on the pricetag of it (which is Cheap at Twice the Price, if you factor ALL the expenses it took to arrive at that bike!), you might opt instead to get a bread-and-butta' bike, which has FAR-less development in it - Hint: Americans Love(d) Cruisers - how much time and money do you suppose they spend developing the suspension, tweaking the frame, or endurance-testing the engine and tranny on a Cruiser?

Case in Point: Last year, many Racing programs went by the wayside from the Big Four. Sales slumped, and sales of their top sport-bikes might have dropped 50% - but 50% of 14,000 total units per-annum won't fund a Race Program any worse than 100% of 14,000 units.......
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Old 08-08-2010, 06:50 PM   #27
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Well I to thought it was quite frivolous. But even more so to not to make any money off the deal. Specially in these times.
Sometimes, you have to Cut and Run, to keep from losing your pants along-with your shirt. Best-laid plans of Mice and Men, and all that.....
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Old 08-09-2010, 07:02 AM   #28
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Yeah it was a stupid move, frankly I don't know why they didn't sink that money into Buell in the form of stand-alone dealerships or at least separate buildings. Trying to sell a performance bike like the Buell line to the average bonehead in a Harley dealership was plain stupid, they simply don't know or care about that type of bike and the salesman didn't care about them. Furthermore when someone did show interest in the Buell line they were pretty much ignored or scoffed at.

Harley had a winner going with the rotax engine in the 1125 and with the right sales environment and some enthusiastic sales and service staff they might have made a go of it. Instead they throw them under the bus and crank out more "Low" versions of the same old bikes. Pretty foolish but that's what you get when you hire a CEO that doesn't know jack sh*t about your own product line.
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Old 08-09-2010, 08:14 AM   #29
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Trying to sell a performance bike like the Buell line to the average bonehead in a Harley dealership was plain stupid, they simply don't know or care about that type of bike and the salesman didn't care about them. Furthermore when someone did show interest in the Buell line they were pretty much ignored or scoffed at.
You could substitute the word "Sportster" for "Buell" and be just as accurate at far too many HD dealerships. Probably "Vrod" too. If so many dealers didn't care about Sportsters then what made HD think they would sell Buells?

Maybe we'll see Buells in dealerships that sell Bombardier products soon. Wouldn't that be poke in HD's eye?
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Old 08-09-2010, 10:09 AM   #30
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I am glad MV Augusta is back under the direction of the Italians. At least they know what to do with that line of bikes. And hopefully Erik Buell will start producing more bikes in the near future, too. If that leaves Harley Davidson just selling Harleys, well, I wish them luck.
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