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Old 01-20-2010, 09:17 AM   #21
The_AirHawk
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Canbus electronics? What's that? Why would you not want one? Don't all modern bikes these days have electronics?
CANbus is where each of the sensors are "smart" and communicate with the ECU via an RS485 bus, instead of each sensor being merely an extension of the ECU. It's supposed to be "one wire" control for each dedicated node, and they can be daisy-chained together (i.e. everything tapped-into a single communications wire).

Originally it was envisioned as a way to cut-down wiring-complexity (and weight) on automobiles. It's essentially useless on a bike, except for the fact that BMW has narrowed all their electronics-development along one line of thought ("CANbus").
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Old 01-20-2010, 09:25 AM   #22
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Canbus electronics? What's that? Why would you not want one? Don't all modern bikes these days have electronics?
BMW started using an electronic system on the R1200 on up that has an unfortunate tendency to shut off the fuel pump. The bike then has to be tricked to dealer where it is reset.
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Old 01-20-2010, 09:41 AM   #23
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The way I'v read it when your in sport and slick mode your still limited by power cuts, one being from the launch or wheelie control. Is that true Kevin?

I hate the fact that there are this much electronic's controlling this bike. No more are the days you'll need alot of experience to graduate to a litler bike. Great way to promote inexperienced riders to a bike they have no business being on. Just my two
The BMW has no launch control. It technically doesn't have wheelie control either, but the traction-control sensors interpret a wheelie (with its front wheel spinning slower than the rear) as a break in traction, so it will reduce power and, as a result, kill the wheelie. The four levels of traction control allow different levels of wheelies.

The "power cuts" you mention are simply a result of the TC system, and these vary based on which of the four TC levels the rider selects, and these allow different levels of wheelspin based on lean angle and the mode selected. In rain mode, power is limited to 150 crank hp. The full 193 horses are available in the other three modes.

You shouldn't hate these electronics. BMW allows them to be shut off completely if that's what you want. Also, big power has been no impediment to newbs wanting to buy them, as we've all seen riders like that on Gixxer Thous and R1s. If a rider like that buys the S1000RR, he/she will be a lot safer on it riding in Rain mode than he will on an R1.

And if you're god enough to ride without TC and ABS, you can either order the bike without them or simply turn them off!

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Old 01-20-2010, 09:48 AM   #24
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CANbus is where each of the sensors are "smart" and communicate with the ECU via an RS485 bus, instead of each sensor being merely an extension of the ECU. It's supposed to be "one wire" control for each dedicated node, and they can be daisy-chained together (i.e. everything tapped-into a single communications wire).

Originally it was envisioned as a way to cut-down wiring-complexity (and weight) on automobiles. It's essentially useless on a bike, except for the fact that BMW has narrowed all their electronics-development along one line of thought ("CANbus").
CANbus does simplify wiring and reduce weight, and the system is intrinsically a good one. It's getting a bad rap from some issues on BMWs. But BMWs aren't the only ones using this higher-tech system. Ducati trumpeted the system when it launched the 999 several years ago. Several other OEMs are using CANbus, and we'll keep seeing more using it every year.
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Old 01-20-2010, 10:21 AM   #25
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CANbus does simplify wiring and reduce weight, and the system is intrinsically a good one. It's getting a bad rap from some issues on BMWs. But BMWs aren't the only ones using this higher-tech system. Ducati trumpeted the system when it launched the 999 several years ago. Several other OEMs are using CANbus, and we'll keep seeing more using it every year.
BMW has an unfortunate tendency to ignore issues that enthusiasts are very aware of. The hub issue is one and the fuel pump/accessory charging issue is another. BMW would be better served by admitting there was a problem and what fixed it rather than pretending it isn't there. The BMWMOAA has done at least one article on the hub problem. Silence from the factory does not help resolve the issues. I'd bet that this word of mouth is causing BMW more problems than any they might encounter by admitting the problem.
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Old 01-21-2010, 06:57 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Kevin_Duke View Post
The BMW has no launch control. It technically doesn't have wheelie control either, but the traction-control sensors interpret a wheelie (with its front wheel spinning slower than the rear) as a break in traction, so it will reduce power and, as a result, kill the wheelie. The four levels of traction control allow different levels of wheelies.

The "power cuts" you mention are simply a result of the TC system, and these vary based on which of the four TC levels the rider selects, and these allow different levels of wheelspin based on lean angle and the mode selected. In rain mode, power is limited to 150 crank hp. The full 193 horses are available in the other three modes.

You shouldn't hate these electronics. BMW allows them to be shut off completely if that's what you want. Also, big power has been no impediment to newbs wanting to buy them, as we've all seen riders like that on Gixxer Thous and R1s. If a rider like that buys the S1000RR, he/she will be a lot safer on it riding in Rain mode than he will on an R1.

And if you're god enough to ride without TC and ABS, you can either order the bike without them or simply turn them off!
I realise how the wheelie control system works, it is a limiter no matter what technical term they want to use. It states that the bike in slick mode will only allow wheelies up to 5sec. That would seem intrusive even though the ABS is completely turned off in this mode.

I guess to be openminded I would have to ride it and find a setting I liked. Sound's like you'll need the reaction time of a computer to ride without the TC, ABS. Guess Iam somewhat trained to hate electronics. I have never even tried the Suzuki's mode switch but maybe once, and hated it.

I have always embraced and passed on the theory of "if you can't handle the power stay off of it"! And for the last 5yrs of selling motorcycle's and 10yrs before that wrenching, I'v alway's directed new riders away from bikes they didn't have enough experience with.

Albeit having these electronics equipted on the bike is great if the rider is inexperienced. But is that the best way to save the rider from him/herself? I like the old fashion way personally grow out of it instead of trying to growing into it. But what do I know, Let us know when you get to ride it Kevin if you havent already. Thanks!
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Old 01-21-2010, 07:03 AM   #27
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I know, Let us know when you get to ride it Kevin if you havent already. Thanks!
Uh-oh! Someone didn't do their homework (or read the thread). Here is his ride report, Mokester:

British SBK Champ Steve Hislop Dies

(Hint: Click on the link. I didn't make the title. MO did, but it IS the BMW review.)
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Old 01-21-2010, 07:13 AM   #28
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Couldnt recall sorry, still stuck on my RRW.
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Old 01-21-2010, 09:18 AM   #29
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CANbus is where each of the sensors are "smart" and communicate with the ECU via an RS485 bus, instead of each sensor being merely an extension of the ECU.
CANbus is RS-485? RS-485 is a robust, reliable transport protocol that's used in a variety of serial communications environments in industry. GE's ACU controller line uses RS-485 for inter and intra controller communications. It has a loop distance of up to 4,000' with proper grounding and shielding, and can run at up to 115.2Kb speeds. The protocol has been around for at least 2 decades, and is favored by GE's military customers because it's not as liable to hacking and other exposures as the TCP/UDP protocols that are replacing it.
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Old 01-21-2010, 11:20 AM   #30
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CANbus is RS-485? RS-485 is a robust, reliable transport protocol that's used in a variety of serial communications environments in industry. GE's ACU controller line uses RS-485 for inter and intra controller communications. It has a loop distance of up to 4,000' with proper grounding and shielding, and can run at up to 115.2Kb speeds. The protocol has been around for at least 2 decades, and is favored by GE's military customers because it's not as liable to hacking and other exposures as the TCP/UDP protocols that are replacing it.
Whoops! My mistake - it was from mem'ry here - CANbus is ISO 11898-1.
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