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Old 12-03-2009, 07:25 AM   #11
Buzglyd
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Originally Posted by longride View Post
"but H-D had been raping their customer base for 7 or 10+ years selling the bikes so far above fair market value (as determined by H-D themselves)"

So if they were above 'fair market value', how exactly did they sell any? I don't want to say that this was a stupid statement until you answer.
Idiotic statements like that show that people really don't understand the concept of LIBERTY.

There's no such thing as raping your customer. If people willingly walk in and pay the price, whatever that price may be, it's a total expression of Liberty in a free society.

Does Ferrari rape it's customers?

The only thing that can "rape" you is the gov't. It's all done by force.
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Old 12-03-2009, 08:00 AM   #12
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"I guess anything is worth what you can get for it, as they clearly demonstrated"

And you would demonstrate the same thing if your bike was suddenly worth 8 grand more on the open market than you paid for it. Of course, you would be a nice guy and sell it at the 'fair market value' right?



"cant blame someone with a 07 or 08 electra owing 20K being bitter when the 2010's are sitting there right now for 21K."

So would the Honda owners of VFR's that paid 11K for their bike last year be pi$$ed that Honda is selling them for under 8 grand this year? Did Honda 'rape' their customers then? Harley didn't discount their bikes. The guy that paid more than list did so becuase he wanted the bike. If he's pi$$ed off, he should look in the mirror as to why he overpaid. Harley sold the same amount of bikes no matter what the price was: all of them, so I don't get your 'point'. If you don't want one, and think they are overpriced, then don't buy one. If you pay over list, then be prepared to have paid too much for a product that may not be worth that much in the near future.
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Old 12-03-2009, 09:14 AM   #13
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sure if I found out I was sitting on some kinda goldmine I'd profit the best I could but if in a long term business situation like this I'm sure theres a few things H-D (and several other companies MC related & otherwise) wishes they had done differently

heres a stretch but please keep an open mind look at beanie babies the first one sold for $3, the last one sold for $3 in resale they sold for $20, but Ty kept selling them at a fair margin regardless of demand, the Rubix Cube, another example, noone could keep them on the shelves either, they coulda made it a factory direct only sale item at $50 and probably still sold out all they could produce but they diddnt

I know toys and motorsports are different industries and typically noone factors life expectancy or resale value into a toy purchacing decision but Im using them as a better economic decision that they companies made. They each coulda capitalized on their awesome product with an awesome demand during an awesome economy but they remained streamlined to their origional business plan, make a reasonable profit with a good product

(sorry got a little mushy here)
I want to say I'm not bashing H-D although it may appear that way and nothing personal against yours or anyones personal decisions. I love motorcycles in general more then I love the badge on the tank. I had a bicycle as a kid with a plastic gastank (complete with removable fuel cap) baseballcard & clothespin for motor sounds and rode the tires off it knowing something bigger was there, then at 14 got a Pugh moped black with gold mag wheels and 2 gears even after getting my driving permit and a car I rode it cause it had 2 wheels and thats where my heart was. We all love the joy our bikes give us and lets enjoy them how we chose
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Old 12-03-2009, 09:23 AM   #14
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I'll also add that my bike of choice if finances diddnt matter would be a Road Glide with single headlight front faring & tour pack primarily due to it being an awesome bike and the fixed faring and unmatched aftermarket support
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Old 12-03-2009, 10:17 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzglyd View Post
Idiotic statements like that show that people really don't understand the concept of LIBERTY.

There's no such thing as raping your customer. If people willingly walk in and pay the price, whatever that price may be, it's a total expression of Liberty in a free society.

Does Ferrari rape it's customers?

The only thing that can "rape" you is the gov't. It's all done by force.
The only way you can "rape" customers is to set up a protected monopoly. The only real way you can do that in the USA is to get the govt to pass laws protecting your business from competition. Sort of like the medical industry, education and other govt protected operations that charge to moon for poor service and bad results. Naturally to feel protected from getting "raped" the simple minded run to the govt to protect them.
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Old 12-03-2009, 10:26 AM   #16
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"heres a stretch.."

Yes it is. Don't bother to go there. Kiddie toys at 3 bucks are hardly comparable to a 20+ grand purchase. You also have to examine who was profiting and why. I knew people that would 'buy' 7 or 8 new Harleys a year and sell them to people for a 3 grand profit per unit. If you were a Harley dealer, how would you feel about that? I know what I would do, and that would be to charge the 3 grand over list and make that money myself. I guess you would just sell these people bikes and let them make the extra cause that's the kinda guy you are.


"I want to say I'm not bashing H-D although it may appear that way and nothing personal against yours or anyones personal decisions. I love motorcycles in general more then I love the badge on the tank."

Actually, you did bash H-D. It didn't just appear that way, you just did it. If you don't care about the badge on the tank, great. I have nothing against your personal decisions either, but to claim that H-D 'raped' their customers for 10 years wasn't exactly a bright statement to say the least. I could easily make the same claim against almost every motorcycle manufacturer.
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Old 12-03-2009, 11:00 AM   #17
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I was an active participant in the Eaglemark Bank fiasco. In 03/04 I was selling bikes for Rossmeyer both on the sales floor and via the Internet. I think it's hard to realize now just how desperately people wanted a Harley. And I think the Beenie Baby analogy is valid, the same MUST HAVE IT AT ANY COST hormonal rage applied (people paid hundreds of dollars for those things, and were happy to do it).

Eaglemark had few rules: you had to have owned a home for 5 years, or you had to be at your job for 2 years. If you didn't owe child support or have an active IRS tax lien, you were good to go. The rates were really high, 21% was the low end, they maxed at 33%, but people still bought. You had to have 10% down, but even that was easily skirted by bringing in an old frame and title. We'd value it up and then add that on the back end. There was a lot of creative paperwork done too; single income families suddenly became 2 income families...job letters were...well, you get the idea.

I remember a grown man crying in the middle of a busy sales floor when I couldn't get him financed. He'd been there all day, he'd gone from an Ultra to a Dyna to a Sportster, the F&I lady did every trick she could think of, he couldn't get financed. A few days later he showed up with cash; he'd closed his 401K and taken the IRS hit, pawned a coin collection, etc. to raise the $14k OTD price we were charging for a Sportster Custom. When he rode away, he was the happiest guy in Fort Lauderdale.
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Old 12-03-2009, 11:28 AM   #18
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You overcharged me?????? You SOB I Loved that Sportster!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:50 PM   #19
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You overcharged me?????? You SOB I Loved that Sportster!!!!!!!!!!!
Did you forget the $50 Leather -n- Chrome Gift Certificate I threw in? The free wash and polish job? And the bike cleaning? Ungrateful creep.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:52 PM   #20
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I'd say that was typical. I (and The Wife) used to work for the SOB's...............
It's pretty pathetic when a company petitions the Legislature to raise the minimum wage so their employees can afford to buy the crap they sell. At least when Sam Walton was alive he made a point to buy stuff from US companies. Now it's fu<king Chinatown.
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