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Old 10-16-2009, 07:40 AM   #31
Buzglyd
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Why not partner up with the Dali Obama? He's doing such a swell job running the auto companies.
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Old 10-16-2009, 07:41 AM   #32
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Hell, I bought one with the "old" engine.


Annnnnnnnnd H-D stock up 12% yesterday in heavy trading.
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Old 10-16-2009, 07:59 AM   #33
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You don't always have to be a "powerhouse" to be a player. Czyz has that electic TT bike setting world records. Roehr is building bikes that, albeit expensive, apparently aren't so expensive as to not be profitable if made by the small team he's assembled. Fischer needs marketing. I'd bet that the little bike will hold it's own against like bikes from Asia. He's selling them for less than $9k, too.
Point is, Erik's name is his marketing. If he joins forces with another running company instant cred it delivered. Kind of like Tamborini bounching from Bimota to Ducati to MV. No matter where he goes money flows with him. People want in. Even if the company isn't making large profits. If Erik joined one of these guys instant financing would be freed up by someone ready to take a shot.
As for the non-compete. Designers come and go in motorcycle and auto industries. I'd bet that there is a contract, but no non-compete. Erik's only bound by a non-disclosure of proprietary information.
I read an article by Kenn Stamp that made since. His belief is that HD screwed the pooch on Marketing the company. They should have let Buell hold it's own as a company instead of being tied to HD dealers. Those "Sportbike" shops that exsist around the country like Corse Superbikes should have been the dealer network rather than HD shops and their less than enthusiastic sales people.
The "real motor" argument is fair, but I think that the majority of the problem was marketing. Buell makes a great streetbike, but everyone wanted to compare it to bikes that were clearly not in the same category of bike. You can't directly compare a bike built with track intentions (the 1098R) to a bike that even Buell calls a streetbike. So, Buell was left in this weird middle ground of "how do you market it" and things blew apart from there. Jouros wanted to compare the bikes to hardcore sportbikes and usually Buell came out the loser. Erik should have adapted earlier to that or stuck to his guns by continuing the "it's just a great streetbike" idea. He flexed thinking you can compare the bikes to modern track style bikes. His DUH! button was stuck on that call. But the question is, "Was Buell bleeding money or where they just the easiest way to control cost and keep the unions happy?"
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Old 10-16-2009, 08:05 AM   #34
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They should have let Buell hold it's own as a company instead of being tied to HD dealers. Those "Sportbike" shops that exsist around the country like Corse Superbikes should have been the dealer network rather than HD shops and their less than enthusiastic sales people.
Sometimes you have a real talent for understatement, Ace. If anything many of the dealers did their best to sabotage Buell. Heck, a lot of them don't even like to sell Sportsters.

I think LR's comment about Eric being suckered by internet buzz is on the mark too.
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:05 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acecycleins View Post
You don't always have to be a "powerhouse" to be a player. Czyz has that electic TT bike setting world records. Roehr is building bikes that, albeit expensive, apparently aren't so expensive as to not be profitable if made by the small team he's assembled. Fischer needs marketing. I'd bet that the little bike will hold it's own against like bikes from Asia. He's selling them for less than $9k, too.
Point is, Erik's name is his marketing. If he joins forces with another running company instant cred it delivered. Kind of like Tamborini bounching from Bimota to Ducati to MV. No matter where he goes money flows with him. People want in. Even if the company isn't making large profits. If Erik joined one of these guys instant financing would be freed up by someone ready to take a shot.
As for the non-compete. Designers come and go in motorcycle and auto industries. I'd bet that there is a contract, but no non-compete. Erik's only bound by a non-disclosure of proprietary information.
I read an article by Kenn Stamp that made since. His belief is that HD screwed the pooch on Marketing the company. They should have let Buell hold it's own as a company instead of being tied to HD dealers. Those "Sportbike" shops that exsist around the country like Corse Superbikes should have been the dealer network rather than HD shops and their less than enthusiastic sales people.
The "real motor" argument is fair, but I think that the majority of the problem was marketing. Buell makes a great streetbike, but everyone wanted to compare it to bikes that were clearly not in the same category of bike. You can't directly compare a bike built with track intentions (the 1098R) to a bike that even Buell calls a streetbike. So, Buell was left in this weird middle ground of "how do you market it" and things blew apart from there. Jouros wanted to compare the bikes to hardcore sportbikes and usually Buell came out the loser. Erik should have adapted earlier to that or stuck to his guns by continuing the "it's just a great streetbike" idea. He flexed thinking you can compare the bikes to modern track style bikes. His DUH! button was stuck on that call. But the question is, "Was Buell bleeding money or where they just the easiest way to control cost and keep the unions happy?"
And I think you have the crux of it, in that last statement.

I could see the pain in his eyes and face. I don't know if he'll rebound from this one or not. "Buell" as a company - even as a part of H-D - was something he'd vested Heart and Soul into.
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:11 AM   #36
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"Point is, Erik's name is his marketing. "

Really? How'd that work out for the Buell Company? Sportbikes are losers in any market. They don't make money. All those companies you named that are setting world records and holding their own aren't making a dime. They are run by rich guys that have nothing else for a tax writeoff. The rogue company that makes it big is such a romantic idea, but there was a big reason Erik partnered up with H-D. They were the only ones that would have him
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:20 AM   #37
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"Point is, Erik's name is his marketing. "

Really? How'd that work out for the Buell Company? Sportbikes are losers in any market. They don't make money. All those companies you named that are setting world records and holding their own aren't making a dime. They are run by rich guys that have nothing else for a tax writeoff. The rogue company that makes it big is such a romantic idea, but there was a big reason Erik partnered up with H-D. They were the only ones that would have him
At least Eric made a good go of it. More that you can say for Czyxtlplx or whatever his name is and his "we'll be marketing a cutting edge sportbike real soon, just keep sending me those investment dollars" bs.
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:46 AM   #38
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At least Eric made a good go of it. More that you can say for Czyxtlplx or whatever his name is and his "we'll be marketing a cutting edge sportbike real soon, just keep sending me those investment dollars" bs.
Sure he made a good go of it. He also hooked up with some deep pockets to get him started. I think Erik had some good designs and some nice bikes. I always like Buells. He was destined to be a niche guy though, and that niche has been squeezed.
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:48 AM   #39
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"They should have let Buell hold it's own as a company instead of being tied to HD dealers. "

Business wise, that would have been an exceptionally bad idea.
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:48 AM   #40
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Sure he made a good go of it. He also hooked up with some deep pockets to get him started. I think Erik had some good designs and some nice bikes. I always like Buells. He was destined to be a niche guy though, and that niche has been squeezed.
Maybe the Japanese can hire him for some original ideas like putting the muffler below the bike.
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