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-   -   Harley-Davidson shutting down Buell (http://www.motorcycle.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13400)

longride 10-26-2009 12:16 PM

"Dear longride, I was not talking about sales numbers..."

So there is nothing really quatifiable to show that Harley is being 'overtaken' other than the other people make bigger motors?

anrajala 10-27-2009 01:07 AM

This is our strategy boys, erm...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by longride (Post 226900)
"Dear longride, I was not talking about sales numbers..."

So there is nothing really quatifiable to show that Harley is being 'overtaken' other than the other people make bigger motors?

Yes longride, you are spot on as usual. There is nothing really quantifiable at all that Harley has been overtaken. Apart from some meaningless things like torque and power.

And who cares about them anyway? Surely these will not be important to anyone. A cruiser brand that does not shy away from looking like chickenshyt in the presence of the competition can only get increased respect in the long run.

For some reason you don't want to anwer my question whether you were happy with Harley having the lamest set of wheels in the big cruiser market. Wonder why its so hard to give an answer. Only very unflattering alternatives come to mind.

- cruiz-euro

longride 10-27-2009 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anrajala (Post 226935)
Yes longride, you are spot on as usual. There is nothing really quantifiable at all that Harley has been overtaken. Apart from some meaningless things like torque and power.

And who cares about them anyway? Surely these will not be important to anyone. A cruiser brand that does not shy away from looking like chickenshyt in the presence of the competition can only get increased respect in the long run.

For some reason you don't want to anwer my question whether you were happy with Harley having the lamest set of wheels in the big cruiser market. Wonder why its so hard to give an answer. Only very unflattering alternatives come to mind.

- cruiz-euro


So let's sum it up. Buell went out of business because it was a 'weak brand' but they made a 'strong motor' in their bike. Harley sells 100 times more than any other cruiser with the 'weak motor', yet they are going under because everybody else makes 'strong motor' in their bike. Yet Buell went under despite a 'strong motor'. I got it now.


I already answered your stupid 'happy with a lame bike' question 100 times. How much planer can it get? Are you dense? I OWN A HARLEY! Would that mean I am unhappy with it? I can buy ANYTHING I WANT ANY TIME I WANT, yet I OWN A HARLEY. If I wasn't happy with it, I'd buy something else. Get it now dumbass? Sheesh. I have owned a ridden just about every brand and bike out there at one time or another. You act like I have no idea what other people make. I do know. I would rather ride a Harley tourer than any other. Mine is stock too. 64 horsepower has taken me all over the country for almost 40,000 miles. Imagine that. I hated every mile according to you. I have owned the same lame underpowered harley tourer for 9 years now. Do your unflattering alternatives still come to mind?

Kenneth_Moore 10-27-2009 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anrajala (Post 226887)
The kids are not wrong. Harley may be on top of the game on many measures but not where it matters most: grunt. Age old question: does size matter? Does power and torq matter?

Yes they bloody well do matter and the sore fact is that during the last seven years five other companies have overtaken Harley and by a big whopping margin.

Those kids all know it. Maybe not in Alabama where the they all have wrongly spelled "Harly-Davidsson" tatooed on their asses. But certainly anywhere else where they surf in the net, read the specs and comparos.

Leading manufacturer of mid-range cruisers, screw me with a stick. HD needs to up the game. Why the hell can't they just start moving their asses?

- cruiz-euro

This is wrong on so many levels it's hard to tell where to start:

Fixation on size is typically a reflection of low self-esteem. If speed and power are tops on your list, you don't buy a frikin cruiser to begin with.

Nobody has overtaken Harley. HD sells over a quarter-million bikes. Only Honda sells more, and they do that only by selling everything from dinky scooters to a gazzillion sport bikes. The dumbest thing HD could do would be to make a significant change in what they build. Every time they do, it's a bust. Chasing after the latest gizmo or the Style De Jour like the rest of the market does is not a good strategy for them.

BTW: do you know what nation is the second largest market for Harley Davidson? I'll give you a hint: a lot of cheesy HD clone cruisers come from there.

seruzawa 10-27-2009 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore (Post 226949)
This is wrong on so many levels it's hard to tell where to start:

Fixation on size is typically a reflection of low self-esteem. If speed and power are tops on your list, you don't buy a frikin cruiser to begin with.

Nobody has overtaken Harley. HD sells over a quarter-million bikes. Only Honda sells more, and they do that only by selling everything from dinky scooters to a gazzillion sport bikes. The dumbest thing HD could do would be to make a significant change in what they build. Every time they do, it's a bust. Chasing after the latest gizmo or the Style De Jour like the rest of the market does is not a good strategy for them.

BTW: do you know what nation is the second largest market for Harley Davidson? I'll give you a hint: a lot of cheesy HD clone cruisers come from there.

I see the envious Finn has got another one going again. If he's this bad now just wait 'til February when he's been cooped up inside in the freezing dark for a few months.

Europe - wishing it was America for 300 years now.

anrajala 10-27-2009 11:40 AM

Wow you own a Harley
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by longride (Post 226945)
I already answered your stupid 'happy with a lame bike' question 100 times. How much planer can it get? Are you dense? I OWN A HARLEY! Would that mean I am unhappy with it? I can buy ANYTHING I WANT ANY TIME I WANT, yet I OWN A HARLEY. If I wasn't happy with it, I'd buy something else. Get it now dumbass? Sheesh. I have owned a ridden just about every brand and bike out there at one time or another. You act like I have no idea what other people make. I do know. I would rather ride a Harley tourer than any other. Mine is stock too. 64 horsepower has taken me all over the country for almost 40,000 miles. Imagine that. I hated every mile according to you. I have owned the same lame underpowered harley tourer for 9 years now. Do your unflattering alternatives still come to mind?

Tsk tsk longride, you are getting blood pressure again. And you didn't answer my question either. My question was not whether you are happy with a 64 rwhp Harley. Hey I am talking to a guy who signs his postings with an amazingly witty "I am a knucklehead".

The question was are you happy with Harley positioning itself in the market as the producer of the big cruisers with the most anemic engines?

As a Harley rider I am not.

- cruiz-euro

anrajala 10-27-2009 12:03 PM

Harley sells more than Yamaha oh yes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore (Post 226949)
Nobody has overtaken Harley. HD sells over a quarter-million bikes. Only Honda sells more, and they do that only by selling everything from dinky scooters to a gazzillion sport bikes.

You must have your statistics from 1953. Didn't we just read an interesting article from China that said there are 12 manufacturers that sell over 500,000 bikes? It didn't say how many sell over quarter a million but hey, you do the maths. And those didn't include any of the most common brands either.

Another interesting factoid: in terms of the number of motorcycles in use the good old US ranks in the 11th place.

- cruiz-euro

longride 10-27-2009 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anrajala (Post 226976)
Tsk tsk longride, you are getting blood pressure again. And you didn't answer my question either. My question was not whether you are happy with a 64 rwhp Harley. Hey I am talking to a guy who signs his postings with an amazingly witty "I am a knucklehead".

The question was are you happy with Harley positioning itself in the market as the producer of the big cruisers with the most anemic engines?

As a Harley rider I am not.

- cruiz-euro

Yup, I'm happy with Harley postitioning inself in the market as a producer of the bug cruisers with the most anemic engines. Anything else?

Kenneth_Moore 10-27-2009 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anrajala (Post 226977)
You must have your statistics from 1953. Didn't we just read an interesting article from China that said there are 12 manufacturers that sell over 500,000 bikes? It didn't say how many sell over quarter a million but hey, you do the maths. And those didn't include any of the most common brands either.

Another interesting factoid: in terms of the number of motorcycles in use the good old US ranks in the 11th place.

- cruiz-euro


The stats are from the only market that really matters.

The_AirHawk 10-27-2009 10:22 PM

"Buell revenue was $134.9 million in 2008 and $59.4 million in 2009 year-to-date. Capital expenditures related to Buell were $6.6 million in 2008 and $3.8 million September year-to-date."

"Well, we just figgerd, 'what the hey - we hate the fukkers anyway - just git fukkin' rid of them rice-wannabe-fukkin' Bools'............"

Harley didn't calculate savings before killing Buell, hopes business as usual leads to financial recovery - Hell For Leather


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