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Old 10-25-2009, 07:28 AM   #161
anrajala
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"The real reason behind all this Buell and MV Agusta hulabaloo is money."

Yup, those companis were both losing it, so they got dumped. Not enough interest in the brands becuase there a lot more 'cruiser guys' that never bought one and never will. I guess you finally managed to say something halfway smart in the last 5 years. Maybe logic school is paying off for you a bit.
The real reason for getting rid of these brands is the $ 5 bn toxic debt that HD has now in the books rotting away. This is the money that was used to finance the guys buying the new bikes. Now to keep the wheels turning the company has to borrow money with an astronomical 15% rate.

The previous strategy to build Buell and Agusta to global brands, to beat Harley's aging clientele problem, was pretty good. Now its all down the drain because there is no cash to do it.

And although HDs lame-ass 64 rwhp is sad, it has nothing to do with the consumer debt. Whereas it certainly aggregates the age problem. Where I live every kid running around the block on a 125 Yamaha knows that HD is not on top of the cruiser game any more.

It seems to me that some emotional patriotic feeling gets in your way to see that the competition has passed by in the big cruiser market. But remember that I belong to the 95% of the world's population that is not American.

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Old 10-25-2009, 07:37 AM   #162
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"Where I live.."

About as relevant to the real world as the price of a scam in Nigeria.

"But remember that I belong to the 95% of the world's population that is not American."

Sounds like life sucks for you. I guess you were patriotic enough to buy a Harley anyway, bucause 95% of the world's population can't build a Harley. At least they had enough game to get you to buy one.
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Old 10-25-2009, 09:58 AM   #163
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I dont like Harleys but the motor they have choosen sells pretty well you have to admit. Harley as much as I dont care for them have always out sold the sportbike market, and Japanese cruiser market. Their style of bikes and motors and their following stand out and speak for themselves. If that's what you choose, you do it because thats what you like, nothing wrong with 64hp motor if thats what ya like!
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Old 10-25-2009, 12:35 PM   #164
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I guess you were patriotic enough to buy a Harley anyway, bucause 95% of the world's population can't build a Harley.
Patriotic? For the 95% of the world's population it is, if anything, an unpatriotic act to spend excessive money on an American recreational item.

Anyways "patriotic" is a very dubious attribute on our side of the Atlantic. It is usually connected with doing something very nasty to the neighboring peoples.

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Old 10-25-2009, 01:28 PM   #165
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Where I live every kid running around the block on a 125 Yamaha knows that HD is not on top of the cruiser game any more.


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But the kids are wrong. HD remains on top of the cruiser game by any measure. Their sales surpass everyone in the catagory by a wide margin. Their competition continues to copy them at every turn (seen the lastest "Dark Customs" from Kawi and Yamaha?). And nobody, US, or otherwise, has ever come even close to creating the brand identity and cutomer loyalty that Harley has. HD will continue to suffer in the poor economy. When the economy rebounds, so will HD. They will lose a few buyers to the Japanese builders, but they will gain back even more who start Japanese, and then come to their senses and buy their Harley. And they will make business errors like aquiring MV Augusta...like they did in the '60's with Aermacchi, but they will recover from it and continue being THE heavyweight motorcycle company.

BTW: I'll bet any one of those kids would sell their sister to get a Harley.
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Old 10-25-2009, 01:54 PM   #166
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At this point in the game I wouldn't ride anything else. All the bikes I lust after now are different Harley models. I guess I've become a one trick pony but I don't feel I have anything to prove anymore, I buy what I like and what fits my current riding enviroment. Other than a few of the new Moto Guzzi's and Beemers, Harley makes what I like .

That's the problem with the Japanese "cruiser" models, you could give me one free and I wouldn't ride it. I'm just not interested and there are a substantial number of Harley owners who feel the same way, I've owned and ridden almost every style and manufacturer made and aside from some vintage European motocrossers and street bikes I'm not too interested. The Japanese bikes that I do like they won't import here like the CB1100 prototype Honda so screw 'em
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Old 10-26-2009, 10:11 AM   #167
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But the kids are wrong. HD remains on top of the cruiser game by any measure. Their sales surpass everyone in the catagory by a wide margin. Their competition continues to copy them at every turn (seen the lastest "Dark Customs" from Kawi and Yamaha?).
The kids are not wrong. Harley may be on top of the game on many measures but not where it matters most: grunt. Age old question: does size matter? Does power and torq matter?

Yes they bloody well do matter and the sore fact is that during the last seven years five other companies have overtaken Harley and by a big whopping margin.

Those kids all know it. Maybe not in Alabama where the they all have wrongly spelled "Harly-Davidsson" tatooed on their asses. But certainly anywhere else where they surf in the net, read the specs and comparos.

Leading manufacturer of mid-range cruisers, screw me with a stick. HD needs to up the game. Why the hell can't they just start moving their asses?

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Old 10-26-2009, 10:19 AM   #168
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"Yes they bloody well do matter and the sore fact is that during the last seven years five other companies have overtaken Harley and by a big whopping margin."

I'm not sure a bigger lie was ever told. Name the 5 companies and show me the sales numbers on how they have 'overtaken' Harley. I bet a million bucks you can't even name one.

"Why the hell can't they just start moving their asses? "

Because the own the cruiser market by a L-A-R-G-E margin is why.
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Old 10-26-2009, 10:46 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by sarnali2 View Post
At this point in the game I wouldn't ride anything else. All the bikes I lust after now are different Harley models. I guess I've become a one trick pony but I don't feel I have anything to prove anymore, I buy what I like and what fits my current riding enviroment.
Yes Sarnali I see what you are saying and its true for many. But then the thing is that those of us baby boomers that ever wanted a Harley pretty much got it. And with a mileage most of us are doing they are going to last another 100 years (the bikes, not the owners).

Regardless, we are still buying some. But as we are in this funny process of moving from a saddle to a golf cart and then to a wheel chair, the companies selling motorcycles should start shifting focus to what kind of ride the x and y generations really want.

Is it really that granpa's 64 rwhp slug that he rode before the final alcohol poisoning? I somehow don't think so.

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Old 10-26-2009, 10:54 AM   #170
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"Yes they bloody well do matter and the sore fact is that during the last seven years five other companies have overtaken Harley and by a big whopping margin."

I'm not sure a bigger lie was ever told. Name the 5 companies and show me the sales numbers on how they have 'overtaken' Harley. I bet a million bucks you can't even name one.
Dear longride, I was not talking about sales numbers (such as Honda 13 million and Harley 0.2 million) but, had you understood the preceeding sentence, about torq and power.

Torq as in that Harley has to screw a third cylinder to be in the league of big cruisers. And still not winning.

Is this good in your opinion? Do you really cherish the fact that Harley is the El Impotente in the big cruiser market?

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