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Old 03-07-2009, 06:50 AM   #11
Dr_Sprocket
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Originally Posted by MOKE1K View Post
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Originally Posted by seruzawa View Post
Be that as it may, it still turns out that the dude lost, not because of his skill, but because some fancy gadget failed.
Which is why I hate these items. One because people mistake them for being a learning tool for novices and secondly because racers become dependant on them to do the work. Imo the 500 era was the best. The bikes where barley controlable and deffinatly out of control.
Yeah. But your argument was that these technological devices were designed for racers, not newbies. If the racers were really THAT good, why would they need it to begin with? Pegram would've done just as well with and without traction control, right?

Now follow this step in logic, Moke:

Q: Why didn't Pegram win?

A: Because he, as a human cannot possible make inputs and corrections faster than a computer.

If a racer is likely to make incorrect inputs, how much more likely is a newbie to make incorrect inputs? 10 times? 100 times? So were these safety devices really meant for racers, who make several mistakes per race, or newbies, who make thousands of mistakes (close calls) each year?

(Hint: If you don't get this question right, then your future as a lawyer is non-existent.)
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Old 03-08-2009, 08:36 AM   #12
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[quote=Dr_Sprocket;206534][quote=MOKE1K;206530]
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Originally Posted by seruzawa View Post
Be that as it may, it still turns out that the dude lost, not because of his skill, but because some fancy gadget failed.

Yeah. But your argument was that these technological devices were designed for racers, not newbies. If the racers were really THAT good, why would they need it to begin with? Pegram would've done just as well with and without traction control, right?

Now follow this step in logic, Moke:

Q: Why didn't Pegram win?

A: Because he, as a human cannot possible make inputs and corrections faster than a computer.


If a racer is likely to make incorrect inputs, how much more likely is a newbie to make incorrect inputs? 10 times? 100 times? So were these safety devices really meant for racers, who make several mistakes per race, or newbies, who make thousands of mistakes (close calls) each year?

(Hint: If you don't get this question right, then your future as a lawyer is non-existent.)
First off, your assuming Pegram lost because he had to shut off his TC. I dont believe he would have won anyway. So blaming it on his lack of using TC is a gross mistake.

Secondly they are designed for racers yes, that doesnt mean its going to make a new rider able to learn his way into riding a liter bike on the street as a first bike? I think everyone here agrees with that statment except you. Again your lack of experience is showing. Besides Iam not saying a racer cant benefit from some of these devices, my argument is that its not going to save a NEW rider from his lack of experience!?????

Arguing about who can react quicker, a computer or a human is as about as stupid as me having to explain this to you time and time again? I think we both know the answer. But it doesnt mean that advances in race technology like slipper clutches dont help. Its not a fail safe, eveything is prone to screw up. Remember if the computer was so good why did it breakdown in the first place forcing the rider to turn it off?

I cant expect you to agree with me at all cause youve never used these components, youve never roadraced with these items. So keep talking circles but I dont think you'll ever understand. If you'd like to try go take your mule to a trackday an maybe then you'll have some refrence instead of just getting it from tv.
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Old 03-08-2009, 09:28 AM   #13
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First off, your assuming Pegram lost because he had to shut off his TC. I dont believe he would have won anyway. So blaming it on his lack of using TC is a gross mistake.
I took that right from the article. Please read it. Are you questioning the esteemed author(s)?

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...my argument is that its not going to save a NEW rider from his lack of experience!?????
So antilock brakes won't save a new rider if he jams on the brakes too hard? So a slipper clutch won't prevent rear wheel lock-up when the noob downshifts at too high a speed, preventing the bike from spitting him off? Hmmm.

I will not correct you again. I did NOT and NEVER WILL suggest that a 1000cc racer replica is for beginners. I will always acknowledge that new riders make poor judgement about the type of bike they should buy.

IF a new rider is destined/determined/hell-bent set on buying a 1000cc racer replica (as many do) would you rather he buy:

a) a new Yamahondazuki with A/B/C mode, antilock brakes, traction control, and slipper clutch OR...
b) an older racer replica 1000cc bike with NONE of the features listed above?
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Old 03-08-2009, 12:15 PM   #14
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You don't know Larry do you Moke? He has ridden on an underfunded team with little to know outside help for a decade easily. In most cases he's a top 5 guy. Now, he has DNA Corse actually paying techs. He's got the skill. Now the bike. He could absolutely win Superbike races. I expect two to three wins and four boxes this season. Look at the top speed of the bike. Look at the splits he was doing. Once they get the electronics working the bike will be a rocket. Fontana and Atlanta will have him on the box- watch.
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Old 03-08-2009, 03:51 PM   #15
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So let's get this straight. I was just checking the rules.

Is it the intention of the rules that for American Superbike, Ducati 1200's can use their traction control because the bikes come equipped with traction control but other bikes can't use traction control because the bikes don't come stock with it?

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Old 03-08-2009, 04:24 PM   #16
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Digging a little deeper into the rules.

Check out this "Bulletin"

http://www.amaproracing.com/assets/A...ll-2009-03.pdf
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Old 03-08-2009, 04:45 PM   #17
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Digging a little deeper into the rules.

Check out this "Bulletin"

http://www.amaproracing.com/assets/A...ll-2009-03.pdf
I guess that's to make everything a little more competitive, eh?
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Old 03-08-2009, 04:48 PM   #18
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I don't see any restriction for use of traction control for the American Superbike class. The rules do state for Supersport and Moto-GT that traction control is only permitted if homologated with a production bike.
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Old 03-08-2009, 04:53 PM   #19
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I don't see any restriction for use of traction control for the American Superbike class. The rules do state for Supersport and Moto-GT that traction control is only permitted if homologated with a production bike.
What the heck does "homologated" mean, anyway?
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Old 03-08-2009, 08:11 PM   #20
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It basically means that the manufacturers have to make a given amount of bikes to sell to the public as production models.
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