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Old 01-22-2009, 09:49 AM   #31
longride
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I look at it this way. If you make a good product, it doesn't matter if you pay your people well, and if you don't make a good product, you can't pay them low enough to make up for it. Lots of companies with no unions are going under. Unions aren't ALWAYS the problem for EVERY issue. Toyota had an operating loss this year for the first time in its 47 year history. Union problems for them too? So if Harley paid their people minimum wage how much is the 'customer' going to save off a $20,000 vehicle? Almost nothing I'd bet. Would quality suffer? I bet it would.
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Old 01-22-2009, 09:51 AM   #32
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Me no feel bad for Hardly-Ableson Stealers - Me LAUGH ! HAHAHAHAH!

You take 25-percent ADM & 2-year-wait and shove up you ass now.

HAHAHAHAH!!
Helloooo? Klazy Ken? Are you in there?
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Old 01-22-2009, 09:53 AM   #33
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Maybe the HD employees might have to accept less than $19.80 per hour starting wages for unskilled labor?

Notice how the Unions demand big increases when the company is doing well but refuse any cuts when things go south? I've had to take a pay cut to keep a job before. Too bad for the thugs. Not one HD employee said, "Maybe we should have mercy on the customers" when they were racking up overtime. Eff 'em now.
If HD really has increasing debt I can't lay all the blame on the unions.
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:13 AM   #34
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Excellent use of LoPan image and quote B-Bar! another favorite of mine..


I wasn't able to read the article but I get the gist of it from the other posts. It seems to be the same story as with other vehicle and luxury item manufacturers, financing a $20k vehicle be it a boat or bike or RV is easy when you're working OT out the butt and piling money in the ol' 401K. It's when the economy hits the sink and you or your spouse loses their job or gets hours cut back that changes need to be made. That's when it comes down to keeping a roof over your head and clothes on your kids backs, for most people in that position it means the toys got to go one way or the other. Since that bangin' HD you paid $25k for will now sell for $10k if you're lucky enough to find a buyer you either walk away or......

That's why the finance arm is losing it's butt, no secret there. Buying MV was a stupid move but it's not the reason for them being in the soup now, it's the fact that to most people a bike is a toy not a way of life or their main transportation. Personally the only thing I value more than my bike is..well nothing really.. I'd live in a trailer and drive a beater 20 year old Bronco 2 before I'd default on my bike. But thats just me, my kids are almost grown and I don't really have any other commitments, most people aren't that lucky.
Luckily the bmw is paid for as my wife lost her job on thursday... We've looked into worst case the car will go back. Truck is paid for and so is the bike. Good times...
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:15 AM   #35
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Maybe the HD employees might have to accept less than $19.80 per hour starting wages for unskilled labor?

Notice how the Unions demand big increases when the company is doing well but refuse any cuts when things go south? I've had to take a pay cut to keep a job before. Too bad for the thugs. Not one HD employee said, "Maybe we should have mercy on the customers" when they were racking up overtime. Eff 'em now.
Since when is building vehicles unskilled labor? The car industry and similar manufacturing jobs used to be the backbone of the middle class. $20 and hour is hardly a huge wage, it's what, $40k a year? Are you in favor of driving our workers and their standard of living down to the level of the Chinese? Unions have been taking massive cuts in wages, benefits, etc. to try to keep companies solvent. Meanwhile the executives do whatever it takes to make their stock targets and get their bonuses.

Workers and unions aren't making multi-million dollar salaries and bonues for mis-managing the business. The HD product is excellent, and it is assembled and finished to world-class standards. It's one of the great lies of our time that somehow the people who actually show up and create real wealth through labor in this country are the problem. They aren't. It's all the hosers on Wall Street and in the boardrooms who are making disgusting profits for pushing paper around and outsourcing jobs and industry to third world countries where they work for $10 a day.
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:17 AM   #36
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Helloooo? Klazy Ken? Are you in there?
Klazy Ken no have excrusive contlact with Insanity.
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:30 AM   #37
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Helloooo? Klazy Ken? Are you in there?
Klazy Ken have ancient Chinese proverb for dis: if both side of deal is happy, den the deal is fair. Don't matter if pay 2 times list price for Hardy David, if you want bike you pay. You not want to pay, no buy bike. Klazy Ken buy old Chuvelhed when price too high. Now price low, Klazy Ken buy nice Suzuki.
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:40 AM   #38
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Since when is building vehicles unskilled labor? The car industry and similar manufacturing jobs used to be the backbone of the middle class. $20 and hour is hardly a huge wage, it's what, $40k a year? Are you in favor of driving our workers and their standard of living down to the level of the Chinese? Unions have been taking massive cuts in wages, benefits, etc. to try to keep companies solvent. Meanwhile the executives do whatever it takes to make their stock targets and get their bonuses.

Workers and unions aren't making multi-million dollar salaries and bonues for mis-managing the business. The HD product is excellent, and it is assembled and finished to world-class standards. It's one of the great lies of our time that somehow the people who actually show up and create real wealth through labor in this country are the problem. They aren't. It's all the hosers on Wall Street and in the boardrooms who are making disgusting profits for pushing paper around and outsourcing jobs and industry to third world countries where they work for $10 a day.

This is a result of the Republican push to denigrate and discredit Unions, typical capitolist "blame the workers" rhetoric. These idiots would rather lap at the feet of some white coller schmuck and beg for crumbs than even try collective bargaining. Maybe after their company is ran into the ground, their jobs shipped to India and their unemployment runs out they can get a job mowing lawns, of course they'll have to undercut Illegal Mexicans to get the jobs but at least they won't be payin' them dam* Union dues....

Dumb f*ckers
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:48 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore View Post
Since when is building vehicles unskilled labor? The car industry and similar manufacturing jobs used to be the backbone of the middle class. $20 and hour is hardly a huge wage, it's what, $40k a year? Are you in favor of driving our workers and their standard of living down to the level of the Chinese? Unions have been taking massive cuts in wages, benefits, etc. to try to keep companies solvent. Meanwhile the executives do whatever it takes to make their stock targets and get their bonuses.

Workers and unions aren't making multi-million dollar salaries and bonues for mis-managing the business. The HD product is excellent, and it is assembled and finished to world-class standards. It's one of the great lies of our time that somehow the people who actually show up and create real wealth through labor in this country are the problem. They aren't. It's all the hosers on Wall Street and in the boardrooms who are making disgusting profits for pushing paper around and outsourcing jobs and industry to third world countries where they work for $10 a day.
I knew I'd hook you guys with that one! Score another for the Doctor! Doctor Seytanzawa! Bwah ha ha ha!

But please spare me the violins. I've actually been in a union shop. So I don't need any propaganda. No thanks. If they don't like it they can start their own motorcycle company. But that would take brains and initiative.. two characteristics decidedly lacking in people who will settle for a seniority based promotion environment.
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:42 AM   #40
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I knew I'd hook you guys with that one! Score another for the Doctor! Doctor Seytanzawa! Bwah ha ha ha!

But please spare me the violins. I've actually been in a union shop. So I don't need any propaganda. No thanks. If they don't like it they can start their own motorcycle company. But that would take brains and initiative.. two characteristics decidedly lacking in people who will settle for a seniority based promotion environment.
I worked in a union environment at Kennedy Space Center. The union sucked for the most part; there were a lot of a-holes who did nothing but cause trouble and file grievances, including 2 against yours truly. However, the fact is, workers have no other way to protect their interests in a capitalist system than by organizing. And for every union abuse, there are benefits to all of us that far outweigh any downsides.
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