Motorcycle Forum

Motorcycle Forum (http://www.motorcycle.com/forum/)
-   Motorcycle Mods and Maintenance (http://www.motorcycle.com/forum/motorcycle-mods-maintenance/)
-   -   Need some help with my 1988 Hurricane CBR1000F (http://www.motorcycle.com/forum/motorcycle-mods-maintenance/14310-need-some-help-my-1988-hurricane-cbr1000f.html)

speedboy98178 02-05-2010 05:42 PM

Need some help with my 1988 Hurricane CBR1000F
 
I bought a front tire at a clearance oday only to find out the matching rear tire might be too fat for my bike. I hope there is some one here that tells me they have had success mounting a 150 60 zr 17 on the backside of their Hurricane. feel free to email me direct blakephillip@clearwire.net

Kenneth_Moore 02-05-2010 06:19 PM

Do you really want to risk getting tossed on the pavement for the price of a tire? Use exactly the size Honda says to use and nothing else.

Dr_Sprocket 02-05-2010 06:52 PM

Ken's right. The lawyers will tell you that the best bet is to stick with the mfg's recommended tire size.

You can usually go one size wider on the rim, but that will alter the handling of the bike. The bead may not seat exactly right and it will change the intended profile of the tire. I went one size up on my 1985 Honda Nighthawk (CB700SC) and lived to tell the tale. I didn't really ride "on the limit" on that bike.

There's no real need to have a matched front/rear tire set. My advice: buy the recommended tire. If you think you must have a wider tire to go faster, that's not exactly true. There's a bunch of people who tear around the track on Ninjas on skinny 130/60, no problems.

A Star Ride 02-05-2010 07:10 PM

I went with a skinnier tire on my front, the guy at the shop said its common among the wing owners to make it more manageble when feet are down. He was right and I couldt tell any difference in handling at speed, maybe I'm lucky.

Dr_Sprocket 02-05-2010 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Star Ride (Post 233801)
I went with a skinnier tire on my front, the guy at the shop said its common among the wing owners to make it more manageble when feet are down. He was right and I couldt tell any difference in handling at speed, maybe I'm lucky.

The funny thing is that it is quite common to go up or down one or two sizes in bicycle tires. Riders do this intentionally to change the handling characteristics of the bicycles. I don't know why it's not as common in motorcycling. Fear of litigation?

I'd love to hear what the old salts (Seru, Sarnali, LR) have to say about this.

A Star Ride 02-05-2010 08:02 PM

They'll sound-off in the morning

speedboy98178 02-05-2010 08:09 PM

HUrricane
 
I wasnt concerned about going faster. I commute 200 miles every weekend for work on this bike. I am not racing. I am trying to save a couple bucks without jeopardizing myself or others. I got a pretty good deal on the Pilot and would like to match it with another radial tire. Unfortunatly there are no 140 80 zr 17 manufactured.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Sprocket (Post 233799)
Ken's right. The lawyers will tell you that the best bet is to stick with the mfg's recommended tire size.

You can usually go one size wider on the rim, but that will alter the handling of the bike. The bead may not seat exactly right and it will change the intended profile of the tire. I went one size up on my 1985 Honda Nighthawk (CB700SC) and lived to tell the tale. I didn't really ride "on the limit" on that bike.

There's no real need to have a matched front/rear tire set. My advice: buy the recommended tire. If you think you must have a wider tire to go faster, that's not exactly true. There's a bunch of people who tear around the track on Ninjas on skinny 130/60, no problems.


The_AirHawk 02-05-2010 09:07 PM

Go with the 150, you'll be OK. IIRC the 1000 had a 4" or 4.5"-wide rear wheel (mem'ry?) - well within the range of the 150 tire (which BTW is the stock size on the '88 Honda HawkGT - and you find 160, 170, and even the occasional 180 [for looks] on them). I run 160s on all my Hawks.

150 will probably slow the handling a bit, depending on the profile of the tire you choose - just an FYI. You may be forced to ditch the inner-fender, or do a bit of judicious trimming (also, depending on the tire profile).

Stick with either Radials or Bias - don't mix them. I don't really condone mixing brands, either - but use your own judgement (as with anything one does outside the realm of "stock replacement" parts).

speedboy98178 02-05-2010 09:22 PM

1988 Hurricane
 
thanks I was starting to believe it was going to be ok too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_AirHawk (Post 233811)
Go with the 150, you'll be OK. IIRC the 1000 had a 4" or 4.5"-wide rear wheel - well within the range of the 150 tire (which BTW is the stock size on the '88 Honda HawkGT - and you find 160, 170, and even the occasional 180 [for looks] on them). I run 160s on all my Hawks.

150 will probably slow the handling a bit, depending on the profile of the tire you choose - just an FYI. You may be forced to ditch the inner-fender, or do a bit of judicious trimming (also, depending on the tire profile).

Stick with either Radials or Bias - don't mix them. I don't really condone mixing brands, either - but use your own judgement (as with anything one does outside the realm of "stock replacement" parts).


MOKE1K 02-06-2010 08:23 AM

Airhawk is correct you can always usually get away with one size fatter. As long as the swingarm will accept it, which it should. The hot set up for the roadracers is to run one size skinnier to get a bigger contact patch when leaned over. My bike asks for a 190, I run a 180.

You'll be fine.

MOKE1K 02-06-2010 08:44 AM

One thing to mention is the fatter tire will not work in corners better, but worse. At that point it can only be for looks if thats what the rider is after. I'v never had a problem even racing with a mixed matched pair of tires. To each his own.

Kenneth_Moore 02-06-2010 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOKE1K (Post 233834)
One thing to mention is the fatter tire will not work in corners better, but worse. At that point it can only be for looks if thats what the rider is after. I'v never had a problem even racing with a mixed matched pair of tires. To each his own.

The fatter tire won't heat up, will be hard to get to fit the rim during installation and thus can cause damage to the rim, and could easily have clearance issues.

IMO; it's not about liability, it's about engineering. Honda and other bike makers spend huge amounts of time and money engineering a bike as an integrated whole. This is especially true with high-performance bikes. Tire testing alone is an enormous investment. Can a different size be installed and made to work? Probably. Is the risk worth the price of a tire? No way.

Dr_Sprocket 02-06-2010 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore (Post 233844)
The fatter tire won't heat up, will be hard to get to fit the rim during installation and thus can cause damage to the rim, and could easily have clearance issues.

IMO; it's not about liability, it's about engineering. Honda and other bike makers spend huge amounts of time and money engineering a bike as an integrated whole. This is especially true with high-performance bikes. Tire testing alone is an enormous investment. Can a different size be installed and made to work? Probably. Is the risk worth the price of a tire? No way.

I remember reading an article a bunch of years back that was trying to determine the optimal tire width. If my recollection serves me right, it was either the 170 or 180 that was faster than the 190. I wonder which tire width, given the same compound and tread, would yield the fastest lap times (140-190). Does anyone remember that article?

The_AirHawk 02-06-2010 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore (Post 233844)
The fatter tire won't heat up, will be hard to get to fit the rim during installation and thus can cause damage to the rim, and could easily have clearance issues.

IMO; it's not about liability, it's about engineering. Honda and other bike makers spend huge amounts of time and money engineering a bike as an integrated whole. This is especially true with high-performance bikes. Tire testing alone is an enormous investment. Can a different size be installed and made to work? Probably. Is the risk worth the price of a tire? No way.

Christ, Ken! We're talkin' less than a centimeter of tread width here - it's not like he's tryin' to shoehorn a F'n 230 on there! It'll be OK - I promise!

Guys put 150s on the dinky 3.5" rims on their Ninja 500s every day. The additional inch of the '88 CBR1000 shouldn't be too much of a problem..............

(and I don't think the ~152hp will have problems "heating up" a 150 - or hazing it into smoke with a flick of the right wrist, for that matter)

Engineering has come a few steps since '88 too - there weren't exactly a shyteload of choices to put on the back of that bike back in '85 when Honda started working on it. There weren't even radial tires available then - if you go by that thinking, putting a radial on the bike will cause it to burst into flames, and him suffer a fiery death the first time he crosses the speed-limit or accelerates "briskly" in a school zone!

sarnali2 02-06-2010 11:48 AM

Ahem... well since you asked.....I personally wouldn't do it, as Ken said bikes are designed as a package as far as frame geometry, tire size and suspension settings to get the best out of the bike as a whole. If it was me I'd try to find a tire maker who offered a front and rear matched set in the correct size.

However, one size up or down should fit and probably won't make that much difference in typical street riding, it'll just make the bike handle differently. Mis matching tire brands isn't really a good idea because of compound and tread design differences and you definately don't want to mix bias ply and radial tires or put bias tires on radial rims or vice versa. Like I said I wouldn't do it, mainly because I'm anal about tires and pressures and the like. you'll probably survive.

A Star Ride 02-06-2010 12:29 PM

I'm curious if everyone is as passionate about exhaust also? I'm a believer in the engineers that designed it know whats best, but exhaust systems are probably the leading first modification. Although some design ideas are due to US law or emissions regulations, but I still like to trust the engineers' decisions.

longride 02-06-2010 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Sprocket (Post 233803)
The funny thing is that it is quite common to go up or down one or two sizes in bicycle tires. Riders do this intentionally to change the handling characteristics of the bicycles. I don't know why it's not as common in motorcycling. Fear of litigation?

I'd love to hear what the old salts (Seru, Sarnali, LR) have to say about this.


Going up a size or two will change the handling, but it isn't dangerous. Wider tires are slower to turn in and will want to stand up easier. Other than that, there really isn't a huge difference. I think the reason most people don't change tire sizes is that they just go with what is on there and stick with it.

speedboy98178 02-06-2010 09:58 PM

Thanks All! I appreciate each response. after I get them both mounted I'll let you know how the Hurricane behaved with the new radial rubber.

Dr_Sprocket 02-07-2010 03:05 AM

Info on tire types from the Ninja 250 Riders page:

Tires 101: An Introduction - Ninja250Wiki

It gives a concise description of the difference between tire types and sizes.

Kenneth_Moore 02-07-2010 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_AirHawk (Post 233847)
Christ, Ken! We're talkin' less than a centimeter of tread width here - it's not like he's tryin' to shoehorn a F'n 230 on there! It'll be OK - I promise!
!

Good grief...we've degenerated into talking about....motorcycles. What is wrong with this site?

Hey, the guy can probably get away with a minor variation in tire size.

Obigatory Cautionary Anecdote:
My friend Billy put an oversize rear on his Sportster. It looked fine, thought all was good. We went out for a ride; he got a few miles up I-95 and it blew out. As near as we could figure out, it fit ok until the wheel speed was high enough to "sling" the tire a bit bigger, where it got into the fender bolts. Luckily he didn't dump the bike or anything, but the tire shreds did ding the crap out of his rear fender.

sarnali2 02-07-2010 06:49 AM

Yeah that happened to a friend of mine too except it was the front tire. The tire rubbed on the caliper and got so hot it ignited a low laying cloud of methane gas from a wetland (West Coast for swamp) and exploded! As it happened he'd put Slime in the tire and when the tire carcass blew out the Slime mixed with the flaming methane and caused a Chernobyl like chain reaction....trust me it wasn't a pretty sight and to this day the still find three-eyed frogs in that marsh..............

longride 02-07-2010 06:57 AM

"It looked fine, thought all was good."

'Thought' is a real bad word when making modifications.

"As near as we could figure out, it fit ok until the wheel speed was high enough to "sling" the tire a bit bigger,...."

What was he doing like 200 MPH on his Sportster? Even if is 'slung' it a bit bigger, how much bigger could that tire have gotten? 1/64th of an inch? It was obviously a defective tire, or it was never clearanced correctly to begin with. There is nothing wrong with changing tire sizes if one actually knows what they are doing. It is not any dangerous than changing oil viscosity. I do stress the 'if you know what you are doing' part though. Yooz guys are trying to make it into rocket science.

longride 02-07-2010 06:58 AM

"The tire rubbed on the caliper ...."

How in the world did someone get a tire to rub on a caliper? I'd love to see what in the hell that mess looked like after it was done.

A Star Ride 02-07-2010 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore (Post 233872)
Good grief...we've degenerated into talking about....motorcycles. What is wrong with this site?

Hey, the guy can probably get away with a minor variation in tire size.

Obigatory Cautionary Anecdote:
My friend Billy put an oversize rear on his Sportster. It looked fine, thought all was good. We went out for a ride; he got a few miles up I-95 and it blew out. As near as we could figure out, it fit ok until the wheel speed was high enough to "sling" the tire a bit bigger, where it got into the fender bolts. Luckily he didn't dump the bike or anything, but the tire shreds did ding the crap out of his rear fender.

I cant believe he diddt feel a rub or anything until it was too late.

A Star Ride 02-07-2010 09:31 AM

Rubbed on the caliper?
What kinda bike was that? My calipers are a good 2-3 inches from the calipers.

The_AirHawk 02-07-2010 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Star Ride (Post 233883)
Rubbed on the caliper?
What kinda bike was that? My calipers are a good 2-3 inches from the calipers.

Hell, I think you even got longride on that'n, Snarli!

A Star Ride 02-07-2010 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_AirHawk (Post 233886)
Hell, I think you even got longride on that'n, Snarli!

from the rubber

MOKE1K 02-07-2010 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore (Post 233844)
The fatter tire won't heat up, will be hard to get to fit the rim during installation and thus can cause damage to the rim, and could easily have clearance issues.

IMO; it's not about liability, it's about engineering. Honda and other bike makers spend huge amounts of time and money engineering a bike as an integrated whole. This is especially true with high-performance bikes. Tire testing alone is an enormous investment. Can a different size be installed and made to work? Probably. Is the risk worth the price of a tire? No way.

More of the reasoning behind what I stated was the fact that you have more tire hanging off the rim, which doesnt provide as much side wall stiffness, thats what makes a wider tire bad for cornering.

MOKE1K 02-07-2010 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore (Post 233872)
Good grief...we've degenerated into talking about....motorcycles. What is wrong with this site?

Hey, the guy can probably get away with a minor variation in tire size.

Obigatory Cautionary Anecdote:
My friend Billy put an oversize rear on his Sportster. It looked fine, thought all was good. We went out for a ride; he got a few miles up I-95 and it blew out. As near as we could figure out, it fit ok until the wheel speed was high enough to "sling" the tire a bit bigger, where it got into the fender bolts. Luckily he didn't dump the bike or anything, but the tire shreds did ding the crap out of his rear fender.

Thats got to be accounted for before installation. It must clear the swingarm,...even at 120mph.

sarnali2 02-07-2010 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_AirHawk (Post 233886)
Hell, I think you even got longride on that'n, Snarli!


Hook, Line and Sinker eh?......roflmao

Kenneth_Moore 02-07-2010 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarnali2 (Post 233894)
Hook, Line and Sinker eh?......roflmao

You had me right up to the Slime. Nobody is stupid enough to put that crap in a motorcycle tire.

longride 02-07-2010 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarnali2 (Post 233894)
Hook, Line and Sinker eh?......roflmao

Damned hook was sharp too!

MOKE1K 02-07-2010 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longride (Post 233876)
"It looked fine, thought all was good."

'Thought' is a real bad word when making modifications.

"As near as we could figure out, it fit ok until the wheel speed was high enough to "sling" the tire a bit bigger,...."

What was he doing like 200 MPH on his Sportster? Even if is 'slung' it a bit bigger, how much bigger could that tire have gotten? 1/64th of an inch? It was obviously a defective tire, or it was never clearanced correctly to begin with. There is nothing wrong with changing tire sizes if one actually knows what they are doing. It is not any dangerous than changing oil viscosity. I do stress the 'if you know what you are doing' part though. Yooz guys are trying to make it into rocket science.

If youve seen what my eyes have witnessed you'd realize how tall a tire can become at high speeds on a dyno. Think about a drag car doing a burn out. Try standing right to next to a rear motorcycle tire that's spinning at 186 mph.

Iv seen rude deformations in tires that exceeded the tires capacity on a dyno and let me tell you, it's strange looking. Imagine the tire having cupped sections starting from the contact patch of the tire on the Dyno
wheel and multipling three times around the back of the tire,...at that speed. Alot of force.

Kenneth_Moore 02-07-2010 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOKE1K (Post 233924)
Try standing right to next to a rear motorcycle tire that's spinnings at 186 mph.

That '72 Ironhead wasn't quite that fast...

longride 02-07-2010 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore (Post 233926)
That '72 Ironhead wasn't quite that fast...

Yeah it was more like 18.6 mph for the Ironhead.

longride 02-07-2010 03:56 PM

"If youve seen what my eyes have witnessed you'd realize how tall a tire can become at high speeds on a dyno."

Tell when you last saw an Ironhead Sportster on a dyno deforming tires?

sarnali2 02-07-2010 05:08 PM

I saw the weirdest thing on my '78 Sporty...I had one of those Cheng Shin tires on there that are really hard compound. I was doing burn outs and the tire got going so fast it expanded but only the center tread, as we all know the side walls on Cheng Shin are the same compound they use in ceramic brake pads so they stayed firm and the center softened up to form a point.....Well I was on asphalt and after all that Sporty torque wearing away the asphalt got hot and melted allowing the tire to slice down into it.! As soon as I stopped the asphalt hardened up again trapping the wheel, boy it took me forever to chip the dam* tire and wheel out of that stuff as all I had was a rock and my Buck knife.....You can still see the spot where they had to come patch the road.

MOKE1K 02-07-2010 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore (Post 233926)
That '72 Ironhead wasn't quite that fast...

Answer from typical Harley rider: "Yeah but that Muther F-er has a shyt load of torque".

MOKE1K 02-07-2010 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longride (Post 233929)
"If youve seen what my eyes have witnessed you'd realize how tall a tire can become at high speeds on a dyno."

Tell when you last saw an Ironhead Sportster on a dyno deforming tires?

Never,... but obviously the tire encountered some type of clearance problem which was most likly due to the expansion of the tire at speed,..right? Thats all I was referencing was that a tire expands under that much load/speed.

longride 02-07-2010 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOKE1K (Post 233935)
Never,... but obviously the tire encountered some type of clearance problem which was most likly due to the expansion of the tire at speed,..right? Thats all I was referencing was that a tire expands under that much load/speed.

The clearance problem was most likely from something contacting the tire with the dude sitting on the bike. It's one thing most guys don't check. They check everything on a lift and it all looks great. Sit on in and compress the suspension a couple inches and everything changes, including what contacts the tires at times. It is HIGHLY doubtful that the tire expanded any appreciable degree to cause a blowout. The old Ironhead just wasn't capable of doing that.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:52 PM.