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-   -   CB650 Charging issues continue (http://www.motorcycle.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11909)

Shinglejohn 05-14-2009 03:17 PM

CB650 Charging issues continue
 
Ive been dealing the world famous CB650 charging extravaganza and i cant seem to get it fixed.

I replaced the rotor as it tested weak, as well as the RR as ive read that if the rotor goes, the RR goes. Im getting good tests from the stator which is an aftermarket stator. A general test of the sytem is coming out proper. the battery is brand new. i removed the connectors and hardwired everything, all connections seem strong...Any ideas. Im at a loss.

I get about 60-70 miles untill the start is weak.

jdvorchak 05-14-2009 09:29 PM

Are you sure that the battery is not charging? You said get about 60-70 miles until the start is weak.

Does that mean 60 miles in one ride, shut it off and while it's still hot/warm try a restart? Or does it mean that you can go 10 6 mile rides over several days and then it is sluggish starting?

While the bike is idling check the voltage at the battery terminals. should be about 13 volts. Then rev it up to about 2500 rpm and check to see that you have 13.8 to 14.2 volts. If you have around 14 volts then it's not your charging system at fault.

If it is sluggish starting after it's warmed up good then you probably have a failing starter or the battery is weak. If it's a pretty new battery then your starter is probably dragging. They do that when they are old and get hot.

We need more info as to the symptoms and what you are doing to get it to "the start is weak".

Shinglejohn 05-14-2009 10:53 PM

Yes a 60 mile ride or so before it experiences the symptoms.

As for the testing, i got good roodings all the way through. after fully charging the battery, i get 13 at idle, 13.5 at 2500 and 14.8 at 5000. That is all dead on with the fault finding chart.

the starter does drag, thats what i mean by weak start. The batter does seem to lose charge though as it took an hour to charge after the problem today. I still had lights but it wouldnt turn the engine over. The battery was reading 12.5.

jdvorchak 05-14-2009 11:57 PM

when the starter drags it will draw a lot more current than a normal one. So I don't doubt that the battery would be discharged after trying to crank it.

See if you can get a rebuilt starter for it or if you want to go cheap get the brushes only. Should only be about $5 or so for the brushes. then you can take the starter out and pull it apart. you will see that the end that comes off, opposite the end with the output gear, will have the brushes attached or just underneath. Slide the rotor out, the part that spins, and very carefully clean the carbon out from in between the copper contacts. Do not clean the copper contacts them selves. Use an old broken hacksaw blade or a small screwdriver or anything that fits in the grooves between the copper contacts. You don't have to go very deap, maybe a 1/16 of an inch. The object here is to clean out the carbon between the copper contacts without damaging them. I hope you know what I mean by the copper contacts. They look like little copper plates about 3/4 in long and there are a bunch of them in there. Attached to the part that spins and they are welded to the coils that make up the rotor.

The brushes rub against them.

I've done this plenty of times to old starters and it is amazing how easy it is to do and how much better the starter works.

Then just put a light coating of light oil on the shaft ends and put it back together.

Maybe do a google search on how to rebuild a starter motor and see if there are pictures and instructions. It really is very easy just make note of how the brushes attach, they will be spring loaded, and do one brush at a time. Do them one at a time in case you get confused as to how the brushes attach and where the wire is routed.

Shinglejohn 05-15-2009 06:21 AM

Thanks JD, this sounds promising.

The_AirHawk 05-15-2009 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdvorchak (Post 213525)
The object here is to clean out the carbon between the copper contacts without damaging them. I hope you know what I mean by the copper contacts. They look like little copper plates about 3/4 in long and there are a bunch of them in there. Attached to the part that spins and they are welded to the coils that make up the rotor.

The brushes rub against them.

It's called the commutator. And don't fret over "polishing" it a bit with some fine emery or a strip of wetordry paper (say 600 to 400 grit), it won't hurt it. Just clamp the rotor in a vice (padded against damage) and do the "shoe-shine-boy" impersonation with the emery-cloth. Or, if it's got a shaft that's small-enough, chuck the opposite-end in a drill and spin that while holding the emery against it.

Be careful not to excessively-scratch the faces of the pads on the commutator when cleaning the spaces between them.

jdvorchak 05-15-2009 05:30 PM

Rotor on a generator, and commutator on a motor... Ok senior moment there.. besides I couldn't spell commutator.

The_AirHawk 05-15-2009 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdvorchak (Post 213640)
Rotor on a generator, and commutator on a motor... Ok senior moment there.. besides I couldn't spell commutator.

IIRC, it's still a commutator, whether generator or motor (brush type).

But that's OK. I thought I should bandy-about that word, just in case Shinglejohn needed to point out what he'd done to someone in-person.

mscuddy 05-15-2009 08:29 PM

If it's an older Honda, its got something called the "Silenium Rectifier" on the charge system, usually rivited to the back of the battery box. It's about 4 inches long, and painted red, and looks like a bolt holding together pieces of square sheet metal.

Now these things can withstand an atomic blast, and are usually the last things to go, and I've had 'em go bad on me once (Honda SL90) so there's always that slight chance...

The_AirHawk 05-15-2009 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mscuddy (Post 213653)
If it's an older Honda, its got something called the "Silenium Rectifier" on the charge system, usually rivited to the back of the battery box. It's about 4 inches long, and painted red, and looks like a bolt holding together pieces of square sheet metal.

Now these things can withstand an atomic blast, and are usually the last things to go, and I've had 'em go bad on me once (Honda SL90) so there's always that slight chance...

I don't know if'n this thing is old-enough for that kinda rectum-frier.......


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