Motorcycle.com

ebryant · 07-29-2008, 08:43 AM

On the 4th of July, my husband was killed in a motorcycle accident. We were on our way home from Santa Barbara, riding on the back roads to avoid traffic. He was riding a Monster S4RS, I was on a Monster 620.

The road conditions weren't the best. In some areas (as in the area where he went down) the asphalt was more like smooth stones cemented together. It is also an area where animals can dart out in front of you.

We came down a straight-away into a turn. I saw him set his turn up on the outside. He broke and down-shifted prior to entering the turn. He is an engineer, very precise and meticulous. He rode the same way. However, I believe he entered the turn with a little more speed than he probably should have.

I was a bit behind him, riding within my own limits and not making an effort to keep up with him. I came into the straightaway in just enough time to see him set up the turn and disappear around the corner. There was no one else on the road. We hadn't seen anyone for miles.

When I came around the turn he was on the ground. His bike was under a black SUV. The front of the bike was sticking out from the front of the SUV. Caleb was dead within seconds, massive internal injuries.

The cops say he turned too far inside, noting that there were peg marks on the right side of the road. But I've been to the site several times and those peg marks are old. Besides which, as I said, I saw him set up that turn. He was no where near where those peg marks are.

It does appear that he lost control of the bike prior to impacting the SUV. His rear tire must have slid out first, but it was not from braking--he didn't hit the brakes until he saw the SUV. The right peg hit the ground first, then there was a small (maybe 2 ft.) skid mark. The peg mark goes across the double yellow.

Ironically, he and I had just ridden on the very same road the day before.

Caleb took his MSF course in 2001 (I believe), and his first bike was a Monster 720 (I think). He rode for a couple of years and got sketched out by something and decided to sell his bike. This year he got the itch to ride again, and I decided to learn to ride as well. He got his Ducati in April of this year. It worried me that he got such a powerful bike so soon, but he loved that bike and I was happy to see him so happy and having fun. He rode to work nearly every day, and rode with friends on the weekend. I was too inexperienced to ride with the group he routinely went rode with.

Does anyone have any insight on what could have happened? Has anyone seen anything like this before? At first I thought maybe target fixation was an issue, but as I said, he was already losing control of the bike. That much seems clear. Could it have been road conditions? Speed?

Any ideas you have are welcome. I need to figure this out and I need to make sure that other riders don't have the same thing happen to them. I'll not let his death be for nothing. I thank you in advance for your help.

Sincerely,
Ericka Bryant

acecycleins · 07-29-2008, 08:58 AM

Sorry for your loss. Seems, however, that using your description he simply had a rider error. If the road surface was as described and he entered the turn too hot he could have simply lowsided the bike. As far as not letting this happen to others- only training can help that. Surface conditions will vary and circumstances will vary. Rider ability is determined by miles and experience. You can't control all those variables. All you can do is encourage training for others or become a MSF Intructor and pass along your experiences.

seruzawa · 07-29-2008, 08:59 AM

Very very sorry for your loss. It sounds like speed and road conditions contributed. Could have been a patch of sand or a couple of oil drips. Who knows?

Public roads are not race tracks. And California roads, especially SoCal roads, are loaded with traffic. On public roads if one pushes it like on a track eventually the odds are going to catch up.

Motorcyclists are very much second class citizens. When we bite it most people think we deserved it. Cops won't go an extra inch.

sarnali2 · 07-29-2008, 09:10 AM

Ditto, sad to say but it sounds like he low sided it. While the police are in no way infalable it appears their accident investigation bears that out. In the appearent second or two that you saw him prior to the corner it would be difficult to say exactly where he was vis a vis lane position and scrape marks vary depending on surface conditions. I'm sorry for your loss but it sounds like he misjudged the corner with tragic results.

mscuddy · 08-04-2008, 09:28 AM

God that sucks.

My heart goes out to you, a loss of life in its prime is the hardest to accept. Be content that at least it was quick, no lingering death in some hospital bed. We all die, it's how you lived that counts.

And take it from me, there will always be worse things than dying.

bbtowns · 08-05-2008, 10:52 AM

So sorry for your loss, that completely sucks. I'm sure he greatly appreciated the support you obviously provided in him in pursuing something he enjoyed.
Peg marks on the right side of the lane would indicate he was wide if it was a left turn, but obviously an oncoming SUV was on his left. I'd guess he got in to the corner a bit hot, and then either over corrected his line or low sided trying to make the corner (depends on whether it's a right or left).
God speed. I wouldn't put too much energy into reconstructing the scene unless you think there's some other factor other than rider error involved. It just takes time from healing yourself. We all make small mistakes from time to time, usually they don't amount to anything, but sometimes they do. Nothing eases the pain except for time, and I hope that time passes for you quickly. We'll all be thinking about Caleb when we ride today.

ebryant · 08-08-2008, 03:28 PM

Thank you all so much for your input. It sounds pretty unanimous. And I know that nothing I can do now will change what happened, but I also know that I can help others. Thank you for the idea of becoming an MSF instructor. I think that's a great idea once I've got a few miles in the saddle. And yes, I intend to continue to ride.

Thank you all for your input and support. I truly appreciate it. Ride safe and have a fabulous weekend!

You guys are awesome.

Ericka

Kenneth_Moore · 08-08-2008, 04:36 PM

I thought your post meant you don't believe what you've been told about this accident. Based on what you wrote, neither would I. In fact, if I came around a tight corner and saw a rider underneath an SUV, the last thing I'd think was that it was the rider's fault. The odds are very much against that.

The cops say he turned too far inside, noting that there were peg marks on the right side of the road. Nobody takes a bike like that too close to the inside of the curve; it denies basic physics that say the faster the speed through the corner, the further out in the corner you have to go.

It does appear that he lost control of the bike prior to impacting the SUV. His rear tire must have slid out first, but it was not from braking--he didn't hit the brakes until he saw the SUV. The right peg hit the ground first, then there was a small (maybe 2 ft.) skid mark. The peg mark goes across the double yellow.

What are the detailed comments about what was happening when he crashed based on? Eyewitnesses? Cops? The SUV driver? Was the SUV the only vehicle that had a view of the wreck? I'd ask for the cell bill for the driver of the SUV and check the time of the accident. I'd ask for video tapes from nearby ATMs, parking lot cameras, etc. I'd demand a little bit more than somebody's suppositions about what happened to your husband.

startedonaCB · 08-08-2008, 09:05 PM

Sorry for your loss, I have to say it is possible that as he set up going outside and wide like you saw him do then lost sight of him, I bet as he made his cut back inside the SUV was suddenly there and he got spooked and dumped his bike versus making the inside cut and "plowed or slid directly into the very thing he tried to avoid. That has to be why he wen't under the freakin SUV unless it was completely in his lane from jump but if that happened he'd probably have wen't over the hood. Sounds like he got too hot in the curve, saw the SUV and knew it then dumped it and slid. It's a horrible thing and Im sorry and it's the very reason ive been worried about pickin up riding again myself after years of not riding.

ebryant · 08-10-2008, 01:24 PM

Thank you, Kenneth, for your input and the thought you put into your reply. I will certainly check on some of those things. I don't have the full accident report from the cops yet. They are taking a lot of time on this one. However the only "eye witness" was the driver of the SUV herself. The report I am sure will be based on what she says and whatever physical evidence they compile from the site. I'll definitely look into the cell phone record issue. There were no cameras in the area. We were in the middle of the countryside on what was until that point a completely empty road.

I don't believe what the cops said about him being too far inside because I saw where he started. No way did he catch the far right side of the pavement. He wasn't anywhere near it. That's what made me begin questioning all of this in the first place.

Maybe there is an answer, maybe not, but I think I'll keep pursuing this for a while longer. I owe my husband that.

Thanks again so much for your input! Have a great Sunday.

Namaste,
Ericka

07-29-2008, 08:43 AM	#1
ebryant Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Moorpark, CA Posts: 6	Motorcycle accident--need some input from experienced riders On the 4th of July, my husband was killed in a motorcycle accident. We were on our way home from Santa Barbara, riding on the back roads to avoid traffic. He was riding a Monster S4RS, I was on a Monster 620. The road conditions weren't the best. In some areas (as in the area where he went down) the asphalt was more like smooth stones cemented together. It is also an area where animals can dart out in front of you. We came down a straight-away into a turn. I saw him set his turn up on the outside. He broke and down-shifted prior to entering the turn. He is an engineer, very precise and meticulous. He rode the same way. However, I believe he entered the turn with a little more speed than he probably should have. I was a bit behind him, riding within my own limits and not making an effort to keep up with him. I came into the straightaway in just enough time to see him set up the turn and disappear around the corner. There was no one else on the road. We hadn't seen anyone for miles. When I came around the turn he was on the ground. His bike was under a black SUV. The front of the bike was sticking out from the front of the SUV. Caleb was dead within seconds, massive internal injuries. The cops say he turned too far inside, noting that there were peg marks on the right side of the road. But I've been to the site several times and those peg marks are old. Besides which, as I said, I saw him set up that turn. He was no where near where those peg marks are. It does appear that he lost control of the bike prior to impacting the SUV. His rear tire must have slid out first, but it was not from braking--he didn't hit the brakes until he saw the SUV. The right peg hit the ground first, then there was a small (maybe 2 ft.) skid mark. The peg mark goes across the double yellow. Ironically, he and I had just ridden on the very same road the day before. Caleb took his MSF course in 2001 (I believe), and his first bike was a Monster 720 (I think). He rode for a couple of years and got sketched out by something and decided to sell his bike. This year he got the itch to ride again, and I decided to learn to ride as well. He got his Ducati in April of this year. It worried me that he got such a powerful bike so soon, but he loved that bike and I was happy to see him so happy and having fun. He rode to work nearly every day, and rode with friends on the weekend. I was too inexperienced to ride with the group he routinely went rode with. Does anyone have any insight on what could have happened? Has anyone seen anything like this before? At first I thought maybe target fixation was an issue, but as I said, he was already losing control of the bike. That much seems clear. Could it have been road conditions? Speed? Any ideas you have are welcome. I need to figure this out and I need to make sure that other riders don't have the same thing happen to them. I'll not let his death be for nothing. I thank you in advance for your help. Sincerely, Ericka Bryant

07-29-2008, 08:58 AM	#2
acecycleins Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: North Georgia Posts: 4,125	Sorry for your loss. Seems, however, that using your description he simply had a rider error. If the road surface was as described and he entered the turn too hot he could have simply lowsided the bike. As far as not letting this happen to others- only training can help that. Surface conditions will vary and circumstances will vary. Rider ability is determined by miles and experience. You can't control all those variables. All you can do is encourage training for others or become a MSF Intructor and pass along your experiences. __________________ "Slack" - a state of being in which everything flows smoothly.....a frame of mind so at ease that the universe naturally cooperates.

07-29-2008, 08:59 AM	#3
seruzawa Robby Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: 8501 ft. Posts: 16,803	Very very sorry for your loss. It sounds like speed and road conditions contributed. Could have been a patch of sand or a couple of oil drips. Who knows? Public roads are not race tracks. And California roads, especially SoCal roads, are loaded with traffic. On public roads if one pushes it like on a track eventually the odds are going to catch up. Motorcyclists are very much second class citizens. When we bite it most people think we deserved it. Cops won't go an extra inch. __________________ I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tanhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.

07-29-2008, 09:10 AM	#4
sarnali2 Aging Cafe` Racer Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sittin' down by my window, lookin' at the rain. Posts: 8,132	Ditto, sad to say but it sounds like he low sided it. While the police are in no way infalable it appears their accident investigation bears that out. In the appearent second or two that you saw him prior to the corner it would be difficult to say exactly where he was vis a vis lane position and scrape marks vary depending on surface conditions. I'm sorry for your loss but it sounds like he misjudged the corner with tragic results. __________________ "Carpe` Throttelum -Loud Suits Save Lives" "All the BMW riders in the room, I want you to leave. Now. Out. "

08-04-2008, 09:28 AM	#5
mscuddy MODERATOR X Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Next to my still checkin the temp. Posts: 5,444	God that sucks. My heart goes out to you, a loss of life in its prime is the hardest to accept. Be content that at least it was quick, no lingering death in some hospital bed. We all die, it's how you lived that counts. And take it from me, there will always be worse things than dying. __________________ A gun is a tool, Marian; no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.

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08-05-2008, 10:52 AM	#6
bbtowns Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 531	So sorry for your loss, that completely sucks. I'm sure he greatly appreciated the support you obviously provided in him in pursuing something he enjoyed. Peg marks on the right side of the lane would indicate he was wide if it was a left turn, but obviously an oncoming SUV was on his left. I'd guess he got in to the corner a bit hot, and then either over corrected his line or low sided trying to make the corner (depends on whether it's a right or left). God speed. I wouldn't put too much energy into reconstructing the scene unless you think there's some other factor other than rider error involved. It just takes time from healing yourself. We all make small mistakes from time to time, usually they don't amount to anything, but sometimes they do. Nothing eases the pain except for time, and I hope that time passes for you quickly. We'll all be thinking about Caleb when we ride today. __________________ What kind of man can abandon his family like that? Seriously, who is he, I'd like lessons.

08-08-2008, 03:28 PM	#7
ebryant Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Moorpark, CA Posts: 6	Thank you all Thank you all so much for your input. It sounds pretty unanimous. And I know that nothing I can do now will change what happened, but I also know that I can help others. Thank you for the idea of becoming an MSF instructor. I think that's a great idea once I've got a few miles in the saddle. And yes, I intend to continue to ride. Thank you all for your input and support. I truly appreciate it. Ride safe and have a fabulous weekend! You guys are awesome. Ericka

08-08-2008, 04:36 PM	#8
Kenneth_Moore Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: VIsiting the GIft Shop in the Pit of DIspair Posts: 7,118	I thought your post meant you don't believe what you've been told about this accident. Based on what you wrote, neither would I. In fact, if I came around a tight corner and saw a rider underneath an SUV, the last thing I'd think was that it was the rider's fault. The odds are very much against that. The cops say he turned too far inside, noting that there were peg marks on the right side of the road. Nobody takes a bike like that too close to the inside of the curve; it denies basic physics that say the faster the speed through the corner, the further out in the corner you have to go. It does appear that he lost control of the bike prior to impacting the SUV. His rear tire must have slid out first, but it was not from braking--he didn't hit the brakes until he saw the SUV. The right peg hit the ground first, then there was a small (maybe 2 ft.) skid mark. The peg mark goes across the double yellow. What are the detailed comments about what was happening when he crashed based on? Eyewitnesses? Cops? The SUV driver? Was the SUV the only vehicle that had a view of the wreck? I'd ask for the cell bill for the driver of the SUV and check the time of the accident. I'd ask for video tapes from nearby ATMs, parking lot cameras, etc. I'd demand a little bit more than somebody's suppositions about what happened to your husband. __________________ www.kennethmoore.org Last edited by Kenneth_Moore : 08-08-2008 at 04:38 PM.

08-08-2008, 09:05 PM	#9
startedonaCB Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: va Posts: 7	Sorry for your loss, I have to say it is possible that as he set up going outside and wide like you saw him do then lost sight of him, I bet as he made his cut back inside the SUV was suddenly there and he got spooked and dumped his bike versus making the inside cut and "plowed or slid directly into the very thing he tried to avoid. That has to be why he wen't under the freakin SUV unless it was completely in his lane from jump but if that happened he'd probably have wen't over the hood. Sounds like he got too hot in the curve, saw the SUV and knew it then dumped it and slid. It's a horrible thing and Im sorry and it's the very reason ive been worried about pickin up riding again myself after years of not riding.

08-10-2008, 01:24 PM	#10
ebryant Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Moorpark, CA Posts: 6	Thank you, Kenneth, for your input and the thought you put into your reply. I will certainly check on some of those things. I don't have the full accident report from the cops yet. They are taking a lot of time on this one. However the only "eye witness" was the driver of the SUV herself. The report I am sure will be based on what she says and whatever physical evidence they compile from the site. I'll definitely look into the cell phone record issue. There were no cameras in the area. We were in the middle of the countryside on what was until that point a completely empty road. I don't believe what the cops said about him being too far inside because I saw where he started. No way did he catch the far right side of the pavement. He wasn't anywhere near it. That's what made me begin questioning all of this in the first place. Maybe there is an answer, maybe not, but I think I'll keep pursuing this for a while longer. I owe my husband that. Thanks again so much for your input! Have a great Sunday. Namaste, Ericka