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Old 12-20-2007, 05:37 PM   #21
Gluge
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If this bike comes in at 22G or a lofty 25G, that would make it essentially twice as expensive as any other liter bike out there. I'm sure it is a fine bike, but if I could have one BMW or one ZX-10 AND on Hayabusa for the same coin, I would say the Beemer comes up a bit short. These are not cruisers here. These bikes win or lose on their performance per buck, and when it's two to one in favor of everything else, I can't see why anyone would buy this bike.
Yes it is expensive.

However sportbike buyers don't just buy on a performance per buck ratio. If they why would anyone ever buy a 600 when you can get a 1000cc for $1-$2k more? Yes a 600 might turn a tinny bit better but even on the tightest tracks a 1000cc will far and away out perform a 600. Also why would anyone buy a 750 or the new smaller ducati etc. ?

Some people want a bike that handles really really well good brakes etc. etc. yet they don't need or even want to deal with 1000cc power. They also might like the power band of a 600 better.

While this BMW might not perform as well as many of the cheaper sport bikes people will probably buy it for it's combination of uniqueness, it's good ergos (sound a bit more relaxed than a ZX-10 or something) all while still performing pretty close to other sport bikes.

That's my guess though... for the same price as a ZX-10 I might take one over a ZX-10 but for $22k no way.
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Old 12-21-2007, 06:49 AM   #22
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>IMO cruiser hae nothing to do with any performace criteria

Hmmm... then, in your opinion, why do you think the cruiser guys are so keen on performance upgrades?

- cruiz-euro
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Old 12-21-2007, 07:03 AM   #23
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>IMO cruiser hae nothing to do with any performace criteria

Hmmm... then, in your opinion, why do you think the cruiser guys are so keen on performance upgrades?

- cruiz-euro
Your question makes an erroneous assumption, and is thus unanswerable. Cruiser guys are not "keen on performance upgrades." I know this as fact, not idle speculation.

I spent about a year working in a position at the FTL HD shop assisting buyers with customizing their bikes. We used not only HD parts, but the major aftermarket stuff as well. I can assure you, the genuine "performace upgrades" were a TINY percentage of the dollars spent. The vast majority of upgrades were "Stage 1," (high flow air filter and loud pipes) and/or chrome. Net performance upgrade, maybe 4%? It was meaningless. In over a year I did TWO real performance upgrades (increased displacement, cams, high flow heads, FI control systems). That's out of hundreds of bikes I customized.
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Old 12-21-2007, 07:06 AM   #24
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Your question makes an erroneous assumption, and is thus unanswerable. Cruiser guys are not "keen on performance upgrades." I know this as fact, not idle speculation.

I spent about a year working in a position at the FTL HD shop assisting buyers with customizing their bikes. We used not only HD parts, but the major aftermarket stuff as well. I can assure you, the genuine "performace upgrades" were a TINY percentage of the dollars spent. The vast majority of upgrades were "Stage 1," (high flow air filter and loud pipes) and/or chrome. Net performance upgrade, maybe 4%? It was meaningless. In over a year I did TWO real performance upgrades (increased displacement, cams, high flow heads, FI control systems). That's out of hundreds of bikes I customized.
I'll bet that you put pipes on 95% of 'em too. Did the shop try to steer them towards reasonable mufflers or was the sky the open pipe limit?
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Old 12-21-2007, 07:21 AM   #25
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I'll bet that you put pipes on 95% of 'em too. Did the shop try to steer them towards reasonable mufflers or was the sky the open pipe limit?
At least 80% of the bikes...95% is not too unreasonable a number. We did all the major brands, V&H, Reinhardt, etc. And a lot of SCREEEEAMIN' EEEEAGLE!!! There was a guy who brought a big truck every month to haul away hundreds of brand new HD stock exhaust systems (and seats, and wheels, etc.) and take to the scrap yard or the small independent shops to resell. He made good money doing it.

At the time there wasn't much concern about noise, most of the buyers wanted it LOUD! Now the EPA crackdown has made them a lot more conservative...big fines if they go out of spec.

The point is, of course, that Anaranjala is wrong, the vast majority of cruiser guys could not care less about real performance. They just want to make a lot of noise and hang a lot of chrome. I'm not knocking that; I did it myself for years and had a blast with it. Nothing better than slamming the throttle closed on a Shovelhead with drag pipes at high speed...that's music to my ears, and it's fun to break glass that way.
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Old 12-21-2007, 07:40 AM   #26
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>IMO cruiser hae nothing to do with any performace criteria

Hmmm... then, in your opinion, why do you think the cruiser guys are so keen on performance upgrades?

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Hmmm... it might be the same reason that sportbike guys are so keen on performance upgrades? I have had numerous Harleys and never did one 'performance upgrade'. I have 28,000 miles on my E-Glide and it is still stone dead stock. Why is that?
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Old 12-21-2007, 08:02 AM   #27
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LR,

Could it be that you've been spending more time with the other bikes and, (maybe) after you climb off a 'Busa (or Bandit), there ain't much point in "horsin'" a Harley?

Back to the topic, though... That HP2 is a mighty expensive 'sickle!
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Old 12-21-2007, 08:11 AM   #28
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LR,

Could it be that you've been spending more time with the other bikes and, (maybe) after you climb off a 'Busa (or Bandit), there ain't much point in "horsin'" a Harley?

Back to the topic, though... That HP2 is a mighty expensive 'sickle!
Absof*ckinlutely! Why try to make something fast that will never be fast, EVER? Why spend thousands to make a slow Harley less slow, when you can get a Bandit (like I did) that will rip the eyeballs out of any Harley for a few grand? Having a fast cruiser is like having the fastest pig in the world. It may be a fast pig, but it's still a slow horse. I will probably 'upgrade' my Harley when I wear it out and it's up for a rebuild. It doesn't cost any more to throw a few performance goodies on it if those parts are going to replaced anyway. To do it when the bike runs just fine is a waste of time and money. Face it, if you wanted a fast bike, Harley isn't your first choice. It's more like the last!
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Old 12-21-2007, 08:57 AM   #29
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>I have 28,000 miles on my E-Glide and it is still
>stone dead stock. Why is that?

Maybe you worked out there was no point of wasting lots of time and money if you can't reach the power and reliability levels that the competition offers off-the-self. Just guessing.

Most (not everybody) of the cruiser guys I know want more power. Maybe they are not pansy enough to fit the image you have in mind.

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Old 12-21-2007, 09:09 AM   #30
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>I have 28,000 miles on my E-Glide and it is still
>stone dead stock. Why is that?

Maybe you worked out there was no point of wasting lots of time and money if you can't reach the power and reliability levels that the competition offers off-the-self. Just guessing.

Most (not everybody) of the cruiser guys I know want more power. Maybe they are not pansy enough to fit the image you have in mind.

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If the cruiser guys that 'you know' are stupid enough to buy a cruiser when they require more power, then I guess they need more than a big bore kit to solve their mental problems. And your guess is wrong (no surprise there right?) in that the power that the bike provides is adequate to do anything I ask of it. More power will not allow it do do anything more than it does at the moment. If you and your 'cruiser buddies' want to throw good money after bad, then go right ahead. After my piddly 3 grand Bandit makes you look like a fool going straight or around any corner you want to find, then maybe you can figure out that your cruiser with all that 'power' is a pretty big joke to begin with.
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Last edited by longride : 12-21-2007 at 09:44 AM.
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