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Old 12-04-2007, 02:33 PM   #21
Gluge
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Originally Posted by acecycleins View Post
If the system is designed to detect "wheel spin" and it does not include application of a breaking system it IS NOT by definition: Traction Control. Look at every modern car (track or not) and it uses braking force to bring the car back into line. When you "retard" ignition you are simply cutting power. SO- TC is not on this bike (or any other for that matter). Suzuki's system uses a similar concept as Kawi.
As for the compactness of current sportbikes: Today's bikes are far smaller than their ancestors. A 1995 CBR600F bike was 405 dry but the dimensions of the bike were about the same as a 2004 or so CBR1000rr.
In short- they make them for jockeys. As long as you're between 145-175 you're in the house, but bust the 195 mark and things get tight (not in a good way).
First TC - only reason cars use brakes instead of cutting power is due to having multiple wheels. See if your in a RWD car and the right rear wheel breaks loose it could cut power but the left wheel still has traction so a better option is to apply the right wheel's brake.
In motorcycle racing I believe none of the TC systems use the brakes, and there's no need you can slow the rear wheel down with the engine.


Bikes getting smaller - I don't fully agree I ride a 1986 GSXR-750 regularly and have also ridden a 2002 GSXR-750 and a 2007 GSXR-750.
The 1986 GSXR is the smallest peg to seat (bends your knees the most)
The 1986 GSXR is much narrower than the 2002 GSXR, and even a bit more narrow than the 2007 GSXR. However the 1986 had the highest bars, most upright position (thought they had been raised 2") The 2002 has the farthest reach to the bars, the 2007 is actually more comfortable than the 2002, at least bar reach wise.

Seems to me the part that makes bikes hard to fit on is the peg to seat ratio which the 1986 was the worst for. The bar reach just determines how tucked over you are. While the width is just sort of a preference thing.
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Old 12-04-2007, 03:12 PM   #22
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Gluge, I apologize for coming off so strongly with you, your attitude struck a wrong cord with me and I respondent inapropriatly. My mistake and it won't happen again.
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Old 12-04-2007, 03:58 PM   #23
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My original post was sort of ment to be jumped on

But I would have never posted it on my own experience as a young skinny (though tall) person. I posted it based on my 200lb 70 year old father who rides a RS250, a torture rack on the freeway according to motorcycle.com. (read the review) He's ridden it on several 20 hour 2-day rides. He is not that fit etc. either and manages just fine

Feel free to flame away, I won't be offended. I do enjoy a good debate if we can stick to the topic and not fall into personal insults.

Thanks for the apology though.
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Old 12-04-2007, 09:00 PM   #24
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Nice write-up ugly bike no thanks I'll keep my R6 for now. I tried to find a good write-up on MotoGP Traction control but couldn't. I can see why they picked the neutral name like that. I would have called it Anti-Spin as in Anti-lock. But that might bring a law suit. The bike looks so weird in the tail and that pipe. What were they thinking?
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Old 12-04-2007, 09:04 PM   #25
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I hear you on that. I am just barely 6 feet and I tried the new R6 on for size. No thanks I'll keep my old one for now. Looking forward to sitting on the new Buell. At some point you would think they would figure out the average rider in the US is not that small.
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Old 12-05-2007, 05:38 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluge View Post
My original post was sort of ment to be jumped on

But I would have never posted it on my own experience as a young skinny (though tall) person. I posted it based on my 200lb 70 year old father who rides a RS250, a torture rack on the freeway according to motorcycle.com. (read the review) He's ridden it on several 20 hour 2-day rides. He is not that fit etc. either and manages just fine

Feel free to flame away, I won't be offended. I do enjoy a good debate if we can stick to the topic and not fall into personal insults.

Thanks for the apology though.

In the real world of big people, your dad isn't all that big. I am 6' 4" and about 250 lbs. I certainly don't consider myself out of shape, because I'm not. I have long legs and have a difficult time bending them the way a tiny sportbike wants them to be bent. That along with a short reach to the bars puts me in a awkward riding position. It has nothing to do with 'going to the gym' or 'getting in shape'. I fit just fine on bigger bikes like a Busa, or ZX-14, but the liter bikes are just getting too small for any type of comfort zone for me.
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Old 12-05-2007, 05:41 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluge View Post
First TC - only reason cars use brakes instead of cutting power is due to having multiple wheels. See if your in a RWD car and the right rear wheel breaks loose it could cut power but the left wheel still has traction so a better option is to apply the right wheel's brake.
In motorcycle racing I believe none of the TC systems use the brakes, and there's no need you can slow the rear wheel down with the engine.


Bikes getting smaller - I don't fully agree I ride a 1986 GSXR-750 regularly and have also ridden a 2002 GSXR-750 and a 2007 GSXR-750.
The 1986 GSXR is the smallest peg to seat (bends your knees the most)
The 1986 GSXR is much narrower than the 2002 GSXR, and even a bit more narrow than the 2007 GSXR. However the 1986 had the highest bars, most upright position (thought they had been raised 2") The 2002 has the farthest reach to the bars, the 2007 is actually more comfortable than the 2002, at least bar reach wise.

Seems to me the part that makes bikes hard to fit on is the peg to seat ratio which the 1986 was the worst for. The bar reach just determines how tucked over you are. While the width is just sort of a preference thing.
... to get through. First you need to explain why everyone should even WANT to ride race replicas. You seem to assume that your personal subjective preference is an objective truth. By the time I got done making a race replica suitable for my needs it be look like another commercially bike. So there's no sense in buying a CBR600RRRRR when in the end it's just like a Speed Triple or a Monster. Furthermore, whjat about tourers? Why should someone who spends days cruising the interstates even try to alter a GSX750 to carry luggage and a passenger. It's insane.

In the real world race replicas don't handle better, stop better or accelerate any better than any number of other bikes that fit riders without a lot of modification.

Then you need to explain why everyone needs to ride bikes that beat you to death on a lot of the tarmac we encounter in cross country riding. I can show you roads that will have a stiffly sprung sportbike's rider in tears in short order. One of my riding partners sold his Duck999 last year and bought a BMW R1200GS for that very reason. Couldn't stand being beaten up. If you alter the suspension for more compliance then you've once again defeated the purpose of owning a replica in the first place.
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Old 12-05-2007, 10:25 AM   #28
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Ahh that is big. I understand that, I am 6'2" and on some bikes my knees are hitting things they shouldn't (fairing edges that your knees are designed to tuck behind)

Really though the worst bike I've ridden for long legs is the 1986 GSXR-750 (compared to a 2002 or a 2007 GSXR-750 which I've also rode)
So I'm not really sure if they are getting more cramped. Defiantly getting smaller but the ergos don't seem to be.
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Old 12-05-2007, 10:51 AM   #29
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The newer liter bikes have tighter ergos than my 2000 ZX9 had. I was OK on the 9 and the Busa, but the newest liters have, for me, noticeably tighter dimensions.
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Old 12-05-2007, 10:59 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seruzawa View Post
... to get through. First you need to explain why everyone should even WANT to ride race replicas. You seem to assume that your personal subjective preference is an objective truth. By the time I got done making a race replica suitable for my needs it be look like another commercially bike. So there's no sense in buying a CBR600RRRRR when in the end it's just like a Speed Triple or a Monster. Furthermore, whjat about tourers? Why should someone who spends days cruising the interstates even try to alter a GSX750 to carry luggage and a passenger. It's insane.

In the real world race replicas don't handle better, stop better or accelerate any better than any number of other bikes that fit riders without a lot of modification.

Then you need to explain why everyone needs to ride bikes that beat you to death on a lot of the tarmac we encounter in cross country riding. I can show you roads that will have a stiffly sprung sportbike's rider in tears in short order. One of my riding partners sold his Duck999 last year and bought a BMW R1200GS for that very reason. Couldn't stand being beaten up. If you alter the suspension for more compliance then you've once again defeated the purpose of owning a replica in the first place.
I never said people should ride these bikes! In fact if you look I said I never need that sort of power on the street. I also said where there's a will... etc. I was just arguing that if you want to fit on one chances are you can find a way.

I was never arguing any reasons why you would want one. I have a race replica RS250, it's great for lane splitting and just sort of zipping about town or fun rides, just accelerating through the powerband at every light puts a smile on my face. However I don't even know if I'd want one of the modern 1000cc or 600cc race replicas just as a street bike.

I've ridden a 2002 GSXR-750 a lot and I end up feeling like I didn't actually ride it... I just taxied it around the runway like the jet it is. Hardly get to open up the throttle.

I rode a FJR1300 for a week or so though it was a great bike for two people but I didn't like lane splitting with it and didn't really like canyon rides on it, the suspension really wallowed, needed stiffer springs. For touring with two people though it'd be great!

Most of my riding is either commuting / little errands or little day canyon rides so the little RS250 is prefect, it's springs are actually quite soft compared to a new GSXRs

I would probably love a standard bike but sadly most have no fairing for wind protection on the freeways for some reason.

In the end I think a lot of bikes require modifications to make them perfect. It only takes me an hour or two to mount a hair tail trunk on a sport bike, so things like that aren't a big deal to me.
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