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Old 12-01-2007, 06:24 PM   #41
Larry
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Default Kiddin' me?

From the article:
"But go over the Rocker with a fine-toothed comb, and a few blemishes appear... snip... it's hard to be harsh on the Harley because in the big picture it looks like it should cost a lot more than it does"

Does it hurt to talk out both sides of your mouth at once?

A bike with "blemishes" costing TWENTY GRAND looks like it should cost more? You lost me...
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Old 12-01-2007, 09:21 PM   #42
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It looks like it should cost more than it does because generally speaking it looks very much like the more expensive true customs available. I was commenting about its styling in general. Consider the bike from more than five feet away and it looks like a lot like those super-pricey true choppers.

And rest assured you can find blems on those too. You'd be surprised how many of those things rattle apart.

So, to clarify, it was a bit of generalization. Hopefully you can see the point I was making. Indeed, those plating problems have no place even on a bike half its cost.
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Last edited by Pete_Brissette : 12-01-2007 at 09:22 PM. Reason: correction
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Old 12-01-2007, 09:26 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longride View Post
Ever notice it's the guys that don't own a motorcycle that are always the ones that cry about horsepower? Maybe if they actually rode, they would find out that it really isn't all that important in the real world of 55mph speed limits and $2500 reckless driving tickets. When the average guy that actually RIDES is looking at a cruiser, I bet horsepower ranks right up in importance with the color of the hair of the salesman.
No, Dude - HP is of utmost importance - that's why I bought my Hawk - 'cuz it's got a Boss motor an' like has more HP than God. Or somethin'..........
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Old 12-01-2007, 10:00 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_AirHawk View Post
No, Dude - HP is of utmost importance - that's why I bought my Hawk - 'cuz it's got a Boss motor an' like has more HP than God. Or somethin'..........
How much HP does god have? Is god Turbo-charged? Does god run on Biodiesel or does he say f*ck it and just turns more dinos into oil?

And does that mean that no mater what speed god is traveling at it is always godspeed?
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Old 12-02-2007, 12:58 PM   #45
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Default Hp/ci

YAMAHA: 84 HP & 105 ft/lbs at 113 CI
VICTORY: 79 HP & 95 ft/lbs at 100 CI
HARLEY: 61 HP & 80 ft/lbs at 96 CI

The Yamaha mahes .74 HP per cubic inch and .93 ft/lbs per cubic inch
The Victory makes .79 HP per cubic inch and .95 ft/lbs per cubic inch
The HD makes .63 HP per cubic inch and .83 ft/lbs per cubic inch

If the Harley made the same power/inch as the Vic. it would be 76/90 (+15 & 10).
If The Yamaha made the same power/inch as the Vic. it would be 89/107 (+5 & 2).

The difference between the Vic and HD is 4 CI and 15 HP.
The difference between the Vic and the Yamaha is 13 CI and 5 HP.

Inch for inch, the Victory makes more power. Period.

Yes, the Raider will beat the Jackpot, but with THIRTEEN more inches of motor I would hope so!

Last edited by Larry : 12-02-2007 at 01:03 PM.
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Old 12-02-2007, 01:15 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_Brissette View Post
It looks like it should cost more than it does because generally speaking it looks very much like the more expensive true customs available. I was commenting about its styling in general. Consider the bike from more than five feet away and it looks like a lot like those super-pricey true choppers.
Ummm... the NESS JACKPOT is the bike that rivals the Ironhorse/Big Dog bikes, complete with diamond cut cylinders & heads for $23K. It's a lot closer to the "customs" than the Rocker is, AND it makes 15 more stock HP than the Rocker too.

Sorry, I'm still not feelin' it.

To me, the Raider won this comparison hands down. Sure, the Harley has some redeeming features, but it flat took an ass whippin' this time around from a $13,000 bike. Good on Yamaha.
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Old 12-02-2007, 01:55 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry View Post
Ummm... the NESS JACKPOT is the bike that rivals the Ironhorse/Big Dog bikes, complete with diamond cut cylinders & heads for $23K. It's a lot closer to the "customs" than the Rocker is, AND it makes 15 more stock HP than the Rocker too.

Sorry, I'm still not feelin' it.

To me, the Raider won this comparison hands down. Sure, the Harley has some redeeming features, but it flat took an ass whippin' this time around from a $13,000 bike. Good on Yamaha.
Umm, Larry? Did you not notice that we picked the Raider the winner?
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Old 12-02-2007, 04:39 PM   #48
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Don't you think anrajala has a point though? Harley is starting to slip in the revenue and profit. Are they becoming complacent?. Just a question. On the other hand, I have to say I still prefer the Harley look In addition, who buys a cruiser based on performance? I guess there could be a point where performance would make a difference in the average cruiser buyer but how much is that?
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Old 12-02-2007, 05:01 PM   #49
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I don't know but, I simply cannot get over the "hanging in the air" seat on the Harley. I know they have the flip out pillion but, would YOU sit on that? Being married, I'd like to take the wife out for a ride and the Harley excludes this. I hear the ride is great and all but, $20 large?

I detested the Yamaha's looks at first. But, the more I look at it the more I like it. I think it's the way the pipes follow the rear fender chrome brace. It looks odd but, now I'm thinking I could live with it or better yet, change the pipes. Yamaha's big twins are very much a great engine. I rode a Midnight Warrior and was blown away by that engine. But, let's face it.......it's all about wanting to be in the Harley Club. Oh, I get it but, Harley's used to be the Blue Collar Bike that "stuck it to the man". Hardtail? Even better way to do so (and keep your chiropractor rolling in $$). Now the Harley is a White Collar Bike. Refined? Yup. No doubt they have come a long ways. This whole "you're not on a REAL bike unless it's a Harley" is getting old. What has it come to? You have to pony up big $$ now to be in The Club? Silly. You get The Look when you are riding a v-twin that isn't from Milwaukee. Don't get me wrong, I love them all. I'd prefer a nice Dyna over this HD but, the Raider has that gorgeous engine. I'd seriously look at www.brittmotorsports.com and see what they can do to this Raider. They do some great stuff and it's worth checking out.
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Old 12-02-2007, 08:16 PM   #50
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Cool Rode the Raider and Roadliner

Hi guys,

I see the same old arguments are going on about the Jap crap vs Harley bad asses. Well, I went to the San Mateo bike show, went straight up to the Yami test ride table and signed up. I ended up riding the Raider S first, then the Roadliner. First off, any pics you see on the internet do not do the Raider or Roadliner justice. These bikes look very clean and well finished in person, and the styling looks spot on and "right" in person. I personally liked the blacked out Raider, looks funky on the web, but in person it looks seriously mean, especially from the rear. Ok, about riding the Raider, riding position felt natural, felt like a chopper of old, drag bar feel, feet forward, felt tough. Tranny shifted perfectly, ratios spaced well for the motor, the engine was amazing. Smooth, just enough lump to know your on a big incher, and the power is what surpised the hell out of me. As a former multiple Harley owner, some with strokers, the Yami engine is everything I always wanted from a V-Twin!! It pulls like no other, I got on the freeway and hit it, first 4 gears and really had to pay attention to my grip on the bars, it flat out moves. But in slow situations, parking lot and traffic, it's tame as a mouse. Also, I was approaching 90+ on the freeway and was coming up on the back of my group ride, no joke, one finger on the front brake, the bike slowed super hard down to the speed limit. I'm talkin some good brakes! As an over all package, excellent bike! For the bad, even though it only has a 210mm tire in the rear, I don't like fat tire handling. The Raider is better than most with fat tires and it wouldn't take long to get used to it, but it isn't for me and it canceled my interest in the bike. I live in the mountains near Lake Tahoe, it's not the bike for up here.

In the end, a bike I didn't think I would be interested in, the Roadliner, turned out to be the show stopper for me. Same great powerful engine, looks good in person, a black and red S model for me thanks, and the handling is crazy good for the class of bike it's in. I got on it and felt like I had owned it for years, in the twisties it was excellent, on the freeway it was effortless to drive, same in traffic and parking lot. And, it has great brakes! No matter what you think about certain brands, you need to ride these, then give your opinion. Without a personal test ride, what are you really commenting on, nothing from experience or real world.

In conclusion, it's the same old story, if you have to have a Harley, you have to. I've owned 7 of them, been there done that, I have a different list of needs now. Handling, power, brakes are first, fit and finish are tied with that, and price is not a deal breaker, but I like a good deal for what I'm getting. After paying $20,000 plus for the Harley, then having to spend another $5000 on the motor and maybe some brake upgrading, with tax, license and financing if you need it, the price of the Harley is rediculous for what you get. All of that rebiulding and upgrading so you can run with the Jap cruisers. And hey, if you say you don't care about the power, I don't believe you. The after market makes millions on selling big inch kits for HD's, you do care about the power. Let's don't forget about Performance Machine and it's multi-million dollar trade in providing brakes for HDs. For 27 years I rode nothing but Harleys, all I ever thought about was having more power, AND some real brakes!! Don't sh*t yer pants boys, somebody has to speak the truth around here. heheh

I guess I'm just not an elitist anymore, I'm a Lone Wolf against the norm and what society says I have to ride. I won't conform to the Man's way, I'll ride a Yamaha Roadliner soon.............F*k all you sell out HD guys, your like a flock of sheep! baaah baaah

Later,

g
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