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Old 12-14-2007, 01:39 PM   #411
Kenneth_Moore
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Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
Kenneth, I'm a member over there. See, told you it has gone too far. I only worry about buying the DL and having all the GS guys tell me "I don't get it" It reminds me of another thread, hold on, um, I got nothin'
When you get your DL, be sure to get one of these before your first ride with the GS guys!

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Old 12-14-2007, 04:46 PM   #412
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Originally Posted by Gluge View Post
I wondered this myself and if so how much? I choose two bikes randomly:


2004 FLHR Road King - MSRP $16,235 Current KBB re-sale $14525
2004 V-Star 1100 Classic - MSRP $8,099 Current KBB re-sale $5,810

However you have to adjust for inflation - $16,235 in 2004 would be $17,696 and for the yamaha $8,099 today would be $8,828 (9% total inflation from 2004 to 2007)

Total lost value:
FLHR Road King - $3,171
V-Star 1100 Classic - $3,018


Pretty close, feel free to suggest some bikes and I'll do some more, I just randomly picked those two so others might come out differently.

My references:
Inflation Rate Calculator- from InflationData.com
New Car Prices | Used Car Values - Official Kelley Blue Book Site
What you fail to factor in is actual selling price when new. That V-Star probably sold for around $7000 and there's a very good chance the Harley sold for over MSRP. Also in the past the metric cruisers usually had very favorable interest rate incentives while Harley financing was at a higher rate. Of course there's market reasons for that but the cost differential (and cash loss) is way different when all that is factored in.
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Old 12-14-2007, 06:31 PM   #413
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What you fail to factor in is actual selling price when new. That V-Star probably sold for around $7000 and there's a very good chance the Harley sold for over MSRP. Also in the past the metric cruisers usually had very favorable interest rate incentives while Harley financing was at a higher rate. Of course there's market reasons for that but the cost differential (and cash loss) is way different when all that is factored in.
Good point, that stuff would all favor the yamaha more though in terms of depreciation.

You could also factor in that if you buy the yamaha you'll have an extra $8k laying around which you can invest and make a return on (above and beyond just keeping up with inflation)
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Old 12-16-2007, 11:24 AM   #414
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I know I'm late to the discussion/rants but I finally got a chance to see the new Raider. I have no bias towards any of the brands having owned Yamahas and currently owning a Victory and a couple of Harleys. I read a post saying the Raider is the zenith of cruiser design, but damn, to me it looks like it was put together with left over pieces from other bikes. Nothing flows. It may out perform the others but I can tell you that it doesn't do a thing for me. I've always liked Yamahas but I wouldn't own this one, superior performance or not. Then again, you know what they say about opinions.
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Old 12-16-2007, 12:55 PM   #415
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>Anaranaja (sp?) seems to think HD is about to go under...the
>"badge is losing it's luster,"

Hmmm. when did I even faintly indicate that HD is about to go under? They are not going. I am talking the badge losing its luster à la Jaguar, Cadillac etc.

They are not going bust either. But have indeed badly suffered in the prestige department by letting the competition take over from right left and center. You know, down on power, wallowy ride, Yogo class brakes, systematically losing comparos etc. Sounds familiar? Riding on the marque reputation is ok but at some point you have to start employing engineers.

Time for incremental development is over when the competition has half again as much grunt. Because they are doing their own incremental bit, and faster.

Anyways good day today, a countryman Kovalainen was chosen to drive McLaren in F1.

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Old 12-16-2007, 01:40 PM   #416
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What do they say about opinions?

- cruiz-euro
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Old 12-16-2007, 03:23 PM   #417
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>Anaranaja (sp?)
Hmmm. when did I even faintly indicate that HD is about to go under?
- cruiz-euro
Last week. Read your posts.
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Old 12-16-2007, 03:33 PM   #418
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Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore View Post
Last week. Read your posts.
"But have indeed badly suffered in the prestige department by letting the competition take over from right left and center."

No, HD is not suffering. That was the whole discussion in your posts last week. You keep saying that HD is in trouble because some other builder's HD copy has better performance than theirs. And I keep saying the HD is incredibly successful by any measure. I feel like Scott talking to Dr. Evil, when he says: "oh, ok, I'll do my thing where I say blah blah blah, and then you'll say blah blah blah, and then we'll have the whole same conversation over again next week."

I have to wonder if you honestly don't retain what was said here more than a few minutes, including what you wrote yourself, of if you're so completely closed minded that you cannot accept the idea that your perception of how Harley Davidson is doing in the marketplace in no way matches any objective measure.
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Old 12-16-2007, 04:01 PM   #419
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Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore View Post
"But have indeed badly suffered in the prestige department by letting the competition take over from right left and center."

No, HD is not suffering. That was the whole discussion in your posts last week. You keep saying that HD is in trouble because some other builder's HD copy has better performance than theirs. And I keep saying the HD is incredibly successful by any measure. I feel like Scott talking to Dr. Evil, when he says: "oh, ok, I'll do my thing where I say blah blah blah, and then you'll say blah blah blah, and then we'll have the whole same conversation over again next week."

I have to wonder if you honestly don't retain what was said here more than a few minutes, including what you wrote yourself, of if you're so completely closed minded that you cannot accept the idea that your perception of how Harley Davidson is doing in the marketplace in no way matches any objective measure.
Best post!

What part of "Harley has ALWAYS been down on power and handling since the 50's" is so hard to understand? Ducatis are "down on power" compared to I-4s yet Duck doesn't get laid into in any fashion like HD does. How about the Japanese getting away with terrible sales figures on cruisers? Why doesn't THAT upset their fan base? If they are so "obviously" superior then sales would show it. HDs sell because HD has the look down cold. The others are just imitators.

For all the self-righteous posturing that goes on most sportbikers buy bikes based on the way they look as well. They can go on and on justifying their purchases but they are always touting their love of "superior" tech. So in that case the fastest bike in the yearly shootouts would be the only one sold all year long if those guys were as objective as they pretend to be. Looks would not enter into it one bit. So why do the loser literbikes sell as well as the winners? The buyers put form over function just like the HD buyers.

HD - detested by people who would never buy one for over a century.
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Old 12-16-2007, 05:30 PM   #420
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What do they say about opinions?

- cruiz-euro
They're like butt holes. Everyone has one and most of them stink.
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