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Old 12-12-2007, 05:53 PM   #301
Gluge
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Originally Posted by longride View Post
I find it even funnier that someone would 'accept a winner' from anyone in ANY motorcycle purchase. What shootout did the bike you ride win? I bet none. Why do you ride it then if it didn't win a shootout? Since you didn't buy a shootout winner, does that make you stupid too? You seem to have all the answers, so please answer these for me. I'm too stupid to figure it out.
The bikes I own have all won shootouts.

Aprilia RS250 - was pitted against the RGV250 and NSR250 won.
EX500 - It won a lot of shoot outs thought out it's history.
Honda RS125 - It wins a lot of shootouts... if by shoot outs you mean club races.. I've never found any offical reviews of 125 GP bikes...

So did I win the bet? what did I win?

Let me know if your too stupid to figure anything else out, I'll try and clear it up for you

Let me address the point I think you were trying to make though - Of course people don't always buy the bike the wins the shootout, but they'll have some personal reason for that. Maybe the bike that won is the more expensive one, and they don't have enough money, or maybe they don't need as much hpr so they go with one that's better in other ways. Or maybe they're all close so they just go with the one that looks best to them. However if they already had their heart firmly set on one brand and weren't going to consider any other brand... I would ask them why read a review like this? what's the point?

That was the case with the harley. Because even if you don't need the better brakes or power of the yamaha it's still cheaper. No one is going to say "Hey I don't need that much power so I'll pay $8k more not to have it!"
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Old 12-12-2007, 06:04 PM   #302
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What seems retarded is the guy that supposedly hates people that dress up like bad asses and then buys a bike that pretends to be a Harley.
Hand me my Tour Master air jacket and Shoei full face and I'll be ready to rumble.
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Old 12-12-2007, 06:05 PM   #303
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Show me the bike that Harley is imitating. Show me just one. Any one. Please save the 'Harley didn't invent the V-Twin' bullshyt. Anyone with two eyes and half a brain can see what the 'Star' motorcycle company represents. I buy an original because it's the real thing, just like my Gibson SG and my Fender Strat. Neither company invented the guitar, but there are about 10 companies that copy everything they do. The Yamaha is an impersonation of the original, just like going to a concert that covers Led Zepplin. They, like Harley did it first, and no matter what someone wants to 'improve' the original can't be beat. What seems retarded is the guy that supposedly hates people that dress up like bad asses and then buys a bike that pretends to be a Harley. Same thing. Oh, and the SUV and TV thing? I leave that for dorks like you to argue over. Again, post a picture of the bike that Harley is imitating.
VRod is a copy of the Yamaha VMax. New Rotax powered Buell is a copy of several, but the engine configuration leans the copy toward Aprilia.(That is good, they have stated they want to compete and beat Ducati, Aprilia, KTM and the others)I imagine there'll be a serious and viable racing effort from Buell now that they have a competative powerplant. Sad to see the sporty motor go, not too many bikes sound as good as a piped Buell. I really hope that Buell makes it long term and starts kicking ass on the track! You can also see that several other manufacturers are copying Buell's central mass ideas. The under frame muffler is getting pretty popular on Japanese bikes.

On the big twin Rocker, Madonna headlights copied from Triumph and the rear fender and seat come straight from the Confederate design. There's plenty of copying going on by all, it's a friggin free for all for the market share. All good biz and fair play in capitalistic societies..

You do know that the rims, front forks, gauges and some other items on new Harleys are made in foreign countries?? There's a little rice in yer potato potato fellas.......heheh
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Old 12-12-2007, 06:26 PM   #304
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I've already ridden the Yamahas, Raider and Roadliner, excellent machines. They are new standard for all cruisers.

So as we are all talking hp, brakes, performance and all that, you nay say with no actual experience on the machines we are talking about. Glad to see you admit it. We're talking facts, your talking non-factual opinion.

You can say whatever you want, I'm trying to talk bikes in a factual manner. In this thread and the Raider thread the same old guys started the phony wannabe shyt, not me. I do however respond to it. And as usual, you try to brand me a trouble maker and blah blah blah. You get what you give anywhere in life, even on the internet amongst strangers. A couple of you are real crybabies when others don't lie down and listen to the drivel. But then again, that's what forums are for, interaction between strangers and differing opinions. Maybe you click guys oughta start your own yahoo group, the six or so of you can sit around and tell each other how great/smart you are and how wonderful 61hp is..............la tee da



You're barking up the wrong tree sport. I never said the Yamastar or any other Metric cruiser was a bad bike, I said I don't like them. As I said numerous times, and I really wonder why I need to keep repeating the same thing to you (are you ESL?...) If you think they're a better bike then f*ckin' well go buy one. Buy two if you like, really it's OK...be secure in the knowledge that you have chosen wisely.

It's remarkable how you expound on everyones right to chose the bike they like then critisize me for not liking the same bike you do. I on the other hand urge you to buy the bike you like and I'm what, a crybaby? I bought the bike I like and I'm very happy with it, if thats not good enough for you then I suggest counseling, you seem to have some real passive/aggressive issues that cause you to act like such a stereotypical internet pest. I wonder how many other websites you visit and try to cause problems on?

You and your neophyte cohorts can't seem to get around the fact not everyone cares about your opinions or your personal preferences in motorcycles. I'm quite happy with both my bikes, Japanese and American and I have no problem with you riding what you like. Whose the crybaby here.

I think what your after is some knee-jerk Harley's Best F*ck The Rest argument from a stereotypical weekend warrior on his catalog custom, I'm afraid you're on the wrong site for that, we are all for the most part very experianced on multiple bikes here, actually I'm surprised no ones really tied into you and your shadow, I guess it's in poor taste to pick on the infirm at Christmas time...
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Old 12-12-2007, 06:33 PM   #305
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Here's more reasons:

Yesterday after work a friend asked if I wanted to ride his Vulcan 900. Air cooled V-Twin, "hidden shock" frame, basically the whole semi-chopper look. The steering was atrocious. The forks flopped from side to side at low speed. This is NOT the first Japanese bike of this type that I've seen that with, and I rode a LOT of them when people traded them in for HD's at the dealership I worked in. I think there is little doubt that HD has done a great job refining their bikes for a century.

At the same aforementioned dealership, I saw what customers got for their used HDs versus their used Japanese cruisers. No comparison, the HDs consistently beat the Japanese in this area, by no small margin.

Quality of build and materials: any objective examination of HD against any bike of it's type will reveal outstanding paintwork chrome, etc. Look at a 3 year old Japanese bike next to a Harley after the same time, and all things being equal, the HD will look much better.

Afermarket and independent shops...HD hands down, nothing else is close.

Platform for customization: ditto above.

I don't really get that worked up about the "real thing" versus the "copy" issue, but as I wrote in a post here a few days ago, if you were even slightly involved with motorcycling in the past 3 decades, you saw that the Japanese went after the HD market deliberately and specifically. I have no problem with that, why not?

And before you think I'm some sort of HD elitist, keep in mind that I recently sold my HD and went out and bought a Japanese bike of a totally different type. However, if I were in the market for a heavyweight V-Twin cruiser, I'd go right out and buy a Harley.

In general, and not in response to this particular post: enough with "you guys" "clicks (cliques)" etc. Sure, there are a lot of regular participants here. It's the same thing at every website like this one that I've been to. CW has Hackasaw and UJM, Stormtroopers has the same crowd every day, etc. It's the nature of the beast. But don't go lumping everyone into some stereotype. For instance, I think LR's argument about brakes is completely wrong. I know for a fact that I would have hit the car that pulled in front of me Monday if I'd been on my old HD or even the Concours. The modern brakes, tires, and suspension on my DL saved my bacon...without skidding, ABS, etc.
I had the same experience. My son called me a few years ago and told me he was coming up to visit me on his new Honda Shadow Aero 1100. I took it for a ride, oh my god what a rolling pile of garbage. Cheap fit and finish, horrible brakes, total gush master suspension, and the motor was a total weezer! He put 38,000 trouble free miles on it, then sold it and bought a VStrom 1000. That Aero was actually one of the most dangerous bikes I've ever ridden, god help you if you had to take any emergency actions on that slop bucket. I'm surprised when you mix a bike like that with inexperienced riders that they even last a month.

Then again, I bought my wife a Honda VLX 600. I used to love riding that little bike(full face helmet to hide my identity), brakes were pretty good, engine was rev happy and smooth, even the cheap suspension worked well. With the Cobra pipes and carbs jetted, she had a blast. At the time I had a shovelhead and the Vmax. I think the VLX woulda gave my shovel a run for it's money, I had it geared for highway so out of the hole it wasn't too impressive.

I hear ya on the lumping people all together, but when the posts get fast and furious things get a little sloppy, that is also the nature of the forum beast.
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Old 12-12-2007, 06:35 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore View Post
Here's more reasons:

Yesterday after work a friend asked if I wanted to ride his Vulcan 900. Air cooled V-Twin, "hidden shock" frame, basically the whole semi-chopper look. The steering was atrocious. The forks flopped from side to side at low speed. This is NOT the first Japanese bike of this type that I've seen that with, and I rode a LOT of them when people traded them in for HD's at the dealership I worked in. I think there is little doubt that HD has done a great job refining their bikes for a century.

At the same aforementioned dealership, I saw what customers got for their used HDs versus their used Japanese cruisers. No comparison, the HDs consistently beat the Japanese in this area, by no small margin.

Quality of build and materials: any objective examination of HD against any bike of it's type will reveal outstanding paintwork chrome, etc. Look at a 3 year old Japanese bike next to a Harley after the same time, and all things being equal, the HD will look much better.
Thank you for these reasons and for actualy adding something to the discussion

However this chopper shootout reviewed the steering of all three of these bikes and the star had the best. They also reviewed the build quality and materials as well as they could and it sounds like the star is right up there. I have heard that in the past the japanese cruisers did have a lot of problems and down sides and I believe they lost shoot outs because of them. That doesn't mean this one does though, sounds like whatever problems they have had in the past are gone.

Watch this thread I'll calculate lost value for a harley vs a yamaha and you'll see they're actualy pretty even, so you might be wrong on the resale reason as well.
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Old 12-12-2007, 06:37 PM   #307
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Default Do harleys really save money on the resale?

I wondered this myself and if so how much? I choose two bikes randomly:


2004 FLHR Road King - MSRP $16,235 Current KBB re-sale $14525
2004 V-Star 1100 Classic - MSRP $8,099 Current KBB re-sale $5,810

However you have to adjust for inflation - $16,235 in 2004 would be $17,696 and for the yamaha $8,099 today would be $8,828 (9% total inflation from 2004 to 2007)

Total lost value:
FLHR Road King - $3,171
V-Star 1100 Classic - $3,018


Pretty close, feel free to suggest some bikes and I'll do some more, I just randomly picked those two so others might come out differently.

My references:
Inflation Rate Calculator- from InflationData.com
New Car Prices | Used Car Values - Official Kelley Blue Book Site
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Old 12-12-2007, 07:29 PM   #308
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Originally Posted by sarnali2 View Post
You're barking up the wrong tree sport. I never said the Yamastar or any other Metric cruiser was a bad bike, I said I don't like them. As I said numerous times, and I really wonder why I need to keep repeating the same thing to you (are you ESL?...) If you think they're a better bike then f*ckin' well go buy one. Buy two if you like, really it's OK...be secure in the knowledge that you have chosen wisely.

It's remarkable how you expound on everyones right to chose the bike they like then critisize me for not liking the same bike you do. I on the other hand urge you to buy the bike you like and I'm what, a crybaby? I bought the bike I like and I'm very happy with it, if thats not good enough for you then I suggest counseling, you seem to have some real passive/aggressive issues that cause you to act like such a stereotypical internet pest. I wonder how many other websites you visit and try to cause problems on?

You and your neophyte cohorts can't seem to get around the fact not everyone cares about your opinions or your personal preferences in motorcycles. I'm quite happy with both my bikes, Japanese and American and I have no problem with you riding what you like. Whose the crybaby here.

I think what your after is some knee-jerk Harley's Best F*ck The Rest argument from a stereotypical weekend warrior on his catalog custom, I'm afraid you're on the wrong site for that, we are all for the most part very experianced on multiple bikes here, actually I'm surprised no ones really tied into you and your shadow, I guess it's in poor taste to pick on the infirm at Christmas time...
I seem to be able to talk to others ok except for you and longride. With all this vast experience, your conversations can't seem to get past the japanese/harley war. Then I see the all critical "which make has more riders with brand specific tattoos" as a measurement of bike quality. You two are hilarious. Then you go on a name calling diatribe towards me to illustrate what a **** disturber "I" am. When it comes to talking about Japanese cruisers on motorcycle.com, you guys are useless. I'm surprised more people haven't called you on this. Why do you guys even post on Japanese cruiser threads here?? You cause the same worthless arguements every time.

You say, "You and your neophyte cohorts can't seem to get around the fact not everyone cares about your opinions or your personal preferences in motorcycles." No shyt, eh. You do know this is a motorcycle forum set up by Motorcycle.com for it's paying customers(and visitors) to specifically talk about their opinions and personal preferences regarding motorcycles???

WTF, over!!

I belong to 10 other motorcycle internet groups, some are wide open, some are strictly technical, focused and moderated. I roll with whatever the rules are per the list. I just came here to talk about the articles I read on this website, ran into you two and that's where it sits.
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Old 12-12-2007, 09:13 PM   #309
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Why do you guys even post on Japanese cruiser threads here?? You cause the same worthless arguements every time.
Worthless arguements (as in two sides) would be correct. Now, let's cut to the meat of the matter, why do people buy these pigs and compare performance numbers? I rarely hear, "you know my nissan murano edged out the toyota 4runner in both zero to sixty and the quarter mile" Who cares? They both suck at both.
I don't get why people defend harley as violently as those defend the reason they bought a knock-off.
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Old 12-12-2007, 11:00 PM   #310
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In what way am I being unclear here?...You've won your argument, from a torque and horsepower point of view the Yamastar comes out ahead, form a more subjective criteria which forms the basis of most decisions I prefer the Harley. I feel there is more value there in so called intangibles that make up the deficit in hp and torque in the stock engine.

Why do you keep trying to make this an anti Japanese point of view. I have an '02 Bandit 1200S that's my play bike and I think Japanese sport and sport tourers are excellent bikes, I'm not antiJapanese bikes. For the umpteenth time, I just don't like this one. If you like it then put your money where your mouth is and buy one, if you disagree with me thats fine. You're the one who's gone to embarrassingly great lengths to "prove" you are right. You're basically arguing with yourself at this point, I don't believe anyone is dissagreeing with you that the Yami makes more power but you seem unable to let it go, well fair enough. As I said buy one and enjoy yourself on it, they'll probably throw in the vest in "Instant Old" leather and some rally pins to give you street cred if you ask...
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