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-   -   Mainstream Choppers Shootout (http://www.motorcycle.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6803)

wallace666 12-12-2007 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longride (Post 175052)
Maybe you need to learn something here. If that 'old' Triumph or Glide can lock either wheel, regardless of the brake type, then it will stop as fast as any over priced brake system you can think of. Do you understand that at all? Do you think that making it one-finger makes it stop faster? Please tell me you aren't that stupid. Like I said before, my 01 E-Glide can lock either wheel easily, so that means that it doesn't matter if I put the Yamaha brakes on it, Brembos, or overpriced PM six-pots on it, the bike will not stop any faster than it will with the stock brakes! SIMPLE PHYSICS AT WORK HERE! Tire technology is what makes bikes stop faster these days. Maybe you can't comprehend this, but what tire you run has MUCH more of an impact on stopping distances than ANY brake you put on, as long as that brake is capable of locking up the wheel.

As for your argument about one-finger stoppers being better for the average guy, well the average guy is not a racer, and probably doesn't practice his skills all that much. I guess that you do, and I certainly do, but think about the weekend warrior and the occasional rider. I know lots more of those than of the every day type of rider. To put a powerful braking system in their hands is just asking them to fail. Read the Hurt Report from many years ago and it will echo what I just said. According to that report most crashes could have been avoided, but the operator either failed to use the brakes at all, or skidded and fell down, which means he applied them too hard. I can certainly see that happening with people that don't ride all that often, which is the vast majority. If you think that most people are fantastic riders and really skilled, I guess you live in a different area than I do, because most guys I see riding just plain suck at it.

Your right about a lot of that. And here's a test for you, get your buddy and his Dyna, and you on your old drum brake HD. Yes both bikes will skid the tires, but my point of better brakes actually reducing reaction time by being effective quicker once applied will be apparent. Also, put some cheap old tires on his Dyna, maybe a couple of those square granite rubber bobber tires everyone thinks is so hip now. That ought to even the field.

Now, ride side by side with your buddy, get going about 60 mph on both bikes, then at a marked point emergency brake. I imagine the Dyna guy will have time to light a smoke while your still trying to stop the old drum bike.

I see what your saying, sounds good scientifically, but in real world practice, it doesn't pan out. If you think skidding is stopping a bike properly oh well, there's skill in modulating what you have. In a mega hard stop, cable operated drum brakes get cable stretch, massive fading as the shoes and drum heat up, been there done it. Sometimes it actually feels like a fading brake drum bike actually speeds up when you over use the brakes and pull the lever!! I know you know what I'm talking about. Friggin scary! :)

Damn Longride, just go ride a Roadliner and experience yourself what all the hype is about! I was shocked how good a large barge cruiser could stop or slow from speed, and it wasn't like grabbing a block of wood like all the HD's, or Nortons/Triumphs and old drum bikes I had. No slander on this one, it's just a joy to experience and will get me back on a cruiser again. As motorcyclists it's a great thing.

Kenneth_Moore 12-12-2007 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallace666 (Post 175054)
Is nothing sacred here!! Slandering a person's wiener is UnAmerican, or it should be!

At least this is a debate, and not a "roast."

I'll be over here in the corner.

sarnali2 12-12-2007 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallace666 (Post 175049)
I'm speaking from direct experience of riding a couple of new Yamis. Remember my ride reports? Tell me, have you ever ridden a Yami Raider or Roadliner? From what real life experience do you base your criticism of these bikes on??



Actually no, I haven't ridden either bikes because I don't care for them, neither did I claim they were substandard in anyway as you claim the Harley is. My comments are based on personal preference only and experiance gained from over 40 years of street and dirt riding and owning over 2 dozen motorcycles.

To me "metric" cruisers are imitation, I would rather have the real thing. Simple as that, that goes for Mayonaise, eggs, bacon, pop, whatever you wish to name. Purchases are based on personal desire and I personally don't desire to be riding whats obviously an imitation. Since you seem to have nothing better to do with your time than attempt to create friction between yourself and total strangers on the internet I'll leave you to it. However I suggest you buy and learn to ride one of these Yammi's as soon as possible, peel the decals and badges off and put a really loud pipe on it, it fits you, really.

longride 12-12-2007 02:30 PM

I'm sure the Roadliner is a fine bike. That said, I will never own one. I'm sure you will like yours.

longride 12-12-2007 02:32 PM

There are no decals or badges. That's how proud of it they are. You forgot to tell him to get one of those Star vests and act like a tough guy too!

seruzawa 12-12-2007 02:33 PM

Better reign it...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sarnali2 (Post 175067)
Actually no, I haven't ridden either bikes because I don't care for them, neither did I claim they were substandard in anyway as you claim the Harley is. My comments are based on personal preference only and experiance gained from over 40 years of street and dirt riding and owning over 2 dozen motorcycles.

To me "metric" cruisers are imitation, I would rather have the real thing. Simple as that, that goes for Mayonaise, eggs, bacon, pop, whatever you wish to name. Purchases are based on personal desire and I personally don't desire to be riding whats obviously an imitation. Since you seem to have nothing better to do with your time than attempt to create friction between yourself and total strangers on the internet I'll leave you to it. However I suggest you buy and learn to ride one of these Yammi's as soon as possible, peel the decals and badges off and put a really loud pipe on it, it fits you, really.

... in there pard or else I sense another Sarnali Smackdown coming soon. Time to head home and pop a Guiness.

Hmmm. I think I'll take that advice myself. Ciao.

Gluge 12-12-2007 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longride (Post 175056)
I base my criticism on the fact that the phony Star company and the phony cruisers that they make, wouldn't even be a thought in the mind of anyone in Japan, had it not been for Harley hitting it big, unless you figure they thought of making a V-Twin, pushrod, air-cooled, belt driven cruiser all by their little lonesome! :-D No matter how they market it, they will always be a imitation of the real thing. There isn't a design in the world that the Japanese can't copy and make cheaper. If that's your bag then go for it. Did you buy the Yamaha yet, or are you still trying to convince yourself how great it really is??

You guys are ridiculous. You realize Harley didn't invent the air cooled V-twin motorcycle right? so really they're imitating someone else too. You also realize everyone imitates everyone in all markets. Do you try and buy a TV from the company that invented it? do you try and buy a telephone from the first company to make those? If your buying an SUV do you buy from the company that invented SUV's ?

No of course not, you try and buy the best one for the money. That's how TV's get better, how competition drives products to improve and drives prices down. That's what this yamaha does. If both these bikes were made by harley and looked the same no one would buy the $20k one.

So basically you guys all buy it for the name right? excuse me here... but that just seems a bit retarded to me.

wallace666 12-12-2007 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longride (Post 175056)
I base my criticism on the fact that the phony Star company and the phony cruisers that they make, wouldn't even be a thought in the mind of anyone in Japan, had it not been for Harley hitting it big, unless you figure they thought of making a V-Twin, pushrod, air-cooled, belt driven cruiser all by their little lonesome! :-D No matter how they market it, they will always be a imitation of the real thing. There isn't a design in the world that the Japanese can't copy and make cheaper. If that's your bag then go for it. Did you buy the Yamaha yet, or are you still trying to convince yourself how great it really is??

Ok, what is a Buell with a Rotax motor? A fake HD product? How about a Vrod with a German motor, is that a fake wannabe HD? HD bought Buell to have a performance bike to stand off from it's main brand. So that's ok, but Yamaha doing it is wrong with the Star company. Hmmm, kinda self serving logic.

Both of those moves by HD are to compete with the Japanese brands, basically copying them to compete in the performance market. For them to compete with others is good, but for the Japanese manufacturers it's a phony fake attempt and trying stealing ideas.

That shlyt don't pass the smell test bubba!!

wallace666 12-12-2007 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gluge (Post 175076)
You guys are ridiculous. You realize Harley didn't invent the air cooled V-twin motorcycle right? so really they're imitating someone else too. You also realize everyone imitates everyone in all markets. Do you try and buy a TV from the company that invented it? do you try and buy a telephone from the first company to make those? If your buying an SUV do you buy from the company that invented SUV's ?

No of course not, you try and buy the best one for the money. That's how TV's get better, how competition drives products to improve and drives prices down. That's what this yamaha does. If both these bikes were made by harley and looked the same no one would buy the $20k one.

So basically you guys all buy it for the name right? excuse me here... but that just seems a bit retarded to me.

Uh oh Gludge, you hath useth common senseth and slandered the glorious mother company. You will now be branded as a shlyt disturber or worse. Best thing to do is repent, proclaim 61hp is enough for any real man and drum brakes and single piston calipers are the best..........heheh!

Fenton 12-12-2007 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gluge (Post 175076)
You guys are ridiculous. You realize Harley didn't invent the air cooled V-twin motorcycle right? so really they're imitating someone else too. You also realize everyone imitates everyone in all markets. Do you try and buy a TV from the company that invented it? do you try and buy a telephone from the first company to make those? If your buying an SUV do you buy from the company that invented SUV's ?

Here, Here. Infact, this whole debate is a knock-off of the original 100 year old HD/Indian argument. We should be ashamed of being debate posuers.
As far as my .02, anybody that buys a 700+ pound bike and then debates hp is a MOron.


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