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-   -   Mainstream Choppers Shootout (http://www.motorcycle.com/forum/motorcycle-general-discussion/6803-mainstream-choppers-shootout.html)

Gluge 12-11-2007 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrowningBAR (Post 174975)
There’s a keyboard in Seattle that's getting it's ass kicked right now. White knuckled fists raining down on an innocent keyboard.

I think I missed the joke :(

I hope your not talking about me though, I'm in santa monica and I say sport bikes can't stop quite as quickly as cruisers. I will say though I think they have better brakes they're just too short and lift their rear wheels too easily, brake system by it's self is better though.

When I said why would anyone give up better braking and pay more I ment the yamaha star compared to the harley in this review.

I'm would be curious to see how well a longer sportish bike (ZX-14 or something) stops compared to a cruiser type.

Anyone know which bikes stop the fastest?

BrowningBAR 12-11-2007 09:26 PM

It was a joke, but wasn't directed at you. It was a long standing "discussion" between the good Doctor Seruzawa and KP about braking.

sfcdjevans 12-12-2007 04:14 AM

The high point of the thread, thanks for the entertainment
 
"Let your anger go...... don't fall prey to the dark side. Longride is your father......"

Who said this is a pointless thread that doesn't justify a visit but once a week or ever.....

Can we get you guys on to world peace or something.....

Gluge 12-12-2007 04:34 AM

FYI I found some braking info...
http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/technical/JAN06Pindx1.pdf

I was surprised actually. It seems sportbikes generaly do stop a tinny bit sooner than cruisers, at least harleys on average, though there are some stand outs.


60-0 distances:
999 - 112 ft
748 - 113 ft
Mille - 113 ft
Tuono - 117 ft

Harleys:
XL1200s - 110 ft
XLH1200C - 124 ft
Sportster 883L - 134 ft
FXDS Convertible - 117 ft
etc. etc.

Over all it looks to me harleys on average stop in 122 ft or so... just roughtly estimating.. where as full on sport bikes seem to be more like 115 ft.

Still either way it's close and it's interesting that the harleys seem quite a bit more scattered (ranging from 134 ft to 109 ft) than the full on sport bikes (R1, GSXR-1000, R6, 999, etc. etc.)

Just thought I'd inject a bit of hard data :)

saddlebag 12-12-2007 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seruzawa (Post 174965)
does not = maximum horsepower. If it did then every engine would be a supercharged minimum of 4 cylinders. And EVERY V-TWIN CRUISER BUILT WOULD BE CRAP including the Yamaha in question because it is easily outclassed by virtually any I-4 ever made.

Fair enough. But in the HD/Yami comparison there is also a disparity in frames, suspensions, and brakes. Those are the "engineered" parts.

When it comes to bling, the Harley has no equal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by seruzawa (Post 174965)
Solipsism

Now there's a word you don't hear everyday.

Quote:

Originally Posted by seruzawa (Post 174965)
Your personal preferences are not divine revelation.

But his personal preferences are consistent with his comment about car makers shift toward performance (i.e. quality engineering). If a Cady's body still wallowed and rolled like one from 1973, it would be an afterthought today...despite a more powerful engine.

anrajala 12-12-2007 04:37 AM

>HD has been behind the power curve since the 60's and the
>people who like them don't seem to care. HD's imminent demise
>due yo lack of power/cc has been predicted by "geniuses" since
>the 60's. Why should anyone believe such predictions now?

What are you saying? Since the sixties the competition had 42% more torq in their cruisers? Honda had VTX1800, Kawi had a 2.1 litre and Rocket III was the king? Fact is that never in the history has Harley been the whipping boy in the cruiser market as it is today. Situation is a bit different than it was in the ‘60s.

And comparing cruisers performance to that of the other bikes? Its as to say “If SUV drivers would like power they’d be buying sports cars”. Nope. They want SUVs. And they want power.

- cruiz-euro

saddlebag 12-12-2007 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gluge (Post 174982)

Harleys:
XL1200s - 110 ft

Yeah, I remember being suprised that a Wide Glide being tested in MC News was hauled down from 60 mph in 109 ft, given it's skinny bias plys and single front disc.

This reminds me of something that brings me back to the actual bikes. One thing I've not seen mentioned anywhere are the "unique" tire sizes used on the Yami. Not too crazy about the idea of a single supplier situation.

I notice that new Harleys are running tall skinny rim protectors that have a sport tire appearance. They were labeled Dunlop 407, but I haven't found a work about them online yet.

longride 12-12-2007 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gluge (Post 174982)
FYI I found some braking info...
http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/technical/JAN06Pindx1.pdf

I was surprised actually. It seems sportbikes generaly do stop a tinny bit sooner than cruisers, at least harleys on average, though there are some stand outs.


60-0 distances:
999 - 112 ft
748 - 113 ft
Mille - 113 ft
Tuono - 117 ft

Harleys:
XL1200s - 110 ft
XLH1200C - 124 ft
Sportster 883L - 134 ft
FXDS Convertible - 117 ft
etc. etc.

Over all it looks to me harleys on average stop in 122 ft or so... just roughtly estimating.. where as full on sport bikes seem to be more like 115 ft.

Still either way it's close and it's interesting that the harleys seem quite a bit more scattered (ranging from 134 ft to 109 ft) than the full on sport bikes (R1, GSXR-1000, R6, 999, etc. etc.)

Just thought I'd inject a bit of hard data :)

I'll inject some harder data. Imagine if those Harleys had sportbike rubber on them. They would cut those distances by many feet. The tires are the determining factor for shorter stopping distance far more than the brakes are. People complain about Harleys having bad brakes, but my 01 E-Glide can lock either wheel easily, so the brakes on it will stop it as quickly as any other overpriced brake system on the market. I may not be able to use one finger, but that makes no difference in the ability to stop quickly. So the 'hard data' you injected isn't all that hard if the cruiser chooses stickier rubber and/or the sportbike guy goes with sport touring rubber. Lots more factors at play here than just one set of data from one tester.

seruzawa 12-12-2007 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longride (Post 174987)
I'll inject some harder data. Imagine if those Harleys had sportbike rubber on them. They would cut those distances by many feet. The tires are the determining factor for shorter stopping distance far more than the brakes are. People complain about Harleys having bad brakes, but my 01 E-Glide can lock either wheel easily, so the brakes on it will stop it as quickly as any other overpriced brake system on the market. I may not be able to use one finger, but that makes no difference in the ability to stop quickly. So the 'hard data' you injected isn't all that hard if the cruiser chooses stickier rubber and/or the sportbike guy goes with sport touring rubber. Lots more factors at play here than just one set of data from one tester.

The important point here is that an average braking difference of 6 feet between HDs and Tuonos is absolutely irrelevant. When traveling at 60mph the time difference is .07 seconds. Competence and reaction time are the important factors.

Calling HD brakes "bad" is just an admission of having limp wrists. Maybe the sportbike guys should go to the gym. LOL!

Kenneth_Moore 12-12-2007 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anrajala (Post 174984)
>HD Fact is that never in the history has Harley been the whipping boy in the cruiser market as it is today.
- cruiz-euro

HD is crying...all the way to the bank.

Or: if Harley is a "whipping boy," where do I sign up? I'd like to be enormously popular worldwide, rich beyond my wildest dreams, and an iconic national symbol.


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