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-   -   450 Super Single Project (http://www.motorcycle.com/forum/motorcycle-general-discussion/6662-450-super-single-project.html)

Gluge 11-01-2007 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanAlexander (Post 172639)
What those arguing for 125 and 250GP bikes are forgetting to mention is: The vast majority of adult club racers cannot physically fit on 125 GP machinery and some don't even fit on 250s. However, almost everyone can fold themselves into the clip-ons and rearsets of a 450MX/GP conversion. If I was 5'8" and 165Lbs I'd race 125GP bikes in a second. So for the cost; the 450MX/GP route is looking pretty attractive.

PS Speaking of cost, the suspension is fairly expensive up-front, but once it's dialed in, it's not much more costly to maintain than clutch plates. 450 four-strokes will surely require a decent budget to keep fresh in a roadrace setting, but the #1 budget killer for a serious club racer is (and will probably always be) Tires, Travel and Entry Fees.

-Sean

Have you sat on one? I sat on one of those conversions They were actualy less roomy than a RS250. One thing to keep in mind - there are larger people that ride 125 and 250 GP bikes. I'm 6'2" 145lbs I rode my RS125 (smallest of the 125s) for half a year in stock form and was comfortable enough for racing. Since then I've moved the seat back 1" and up 1.5" and moved the pegs back 1" or so.. If I wanted to I could always raise the seat and bars more to give me more room.

I recently test rode a Ducati Sport 1000 - the one with the little fairing and the clip ons.. that was way less comfy than my 125. Probably didn't help that I wasn't racing it around the track though.

My father has ridden my 125 he's 70 years old, 190 lbs and 5'9" with knee problems, he rode it before I moved the seat and pegs - it wasn't comfortable for him but he was able to do it. I'm still trying to get him to try it now it's much better with the seat and pegs moved :)

Anyway point is things like that can be addressed easily and it really shouldn't be an excuse for anyone :) Have you ever tried one sean? I invite you to come try my 125 at any track day or race weekend I'm at (I usualy do one a month) e-mail me at barrett@blur.com

mscuddy 11-01-2007 06:10 PM

Four Strokes Suck!
 
1 Attachment(s)
..ca' mon, you all know it. Admit it, four striker dirt bikes suck doo doo. I mean, if they have to race 150cc 4 strikers in the 80 class, and 250's in the 125 class, 450's in the 250 class, what would they have to race in the real-man OPEN CLASS is there was still such a thing? 1000cc 4 stroke dirt bikes!? Makes no sense...

One of the most funnest things in life was smoking all my buddies on their new gee-whizzo KTM 525 and HONDA 450 sooper duper can't beat 'em four strokes with a ratty looking 20 year old CR500. Silence would fill the air back in camp.

If a 450cc 4 striker exploded in the desert, and no one was around, would it make any noise?

seruzawa 11-01-2007 06:22 PM

C'mon....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mscuddy (Post 172648)
..ca' mon, you all know it. Admit it, four striker dirt bikes suck doo doo. I mean, if they have to race 150cc 4 strikers in the 80 class, and 250's in the 125 class, 450's in the 250 class, what would they have to race in the real-man OPEN CLASS is there was still such a thing? 1000cc 4 stroke dirt bikes!? Makes no sense...

One of the most funnest things in life was smoking all my buddies on their new gee-whizzo KTM 525 and HONDA 450 sooper duper can't beat 'em four strokes with a ratty looking 20 year old CR500. Silence would fill the air back in camp.

If a 450cc 4 striker exploded in the desert, and no one was around, would it make any noise?

..you know the industry went whole hog for offroad racing 4 strokes because it would keep the Sierra Club and all the environmentalists off their @sses. You can see how well that's worked.

Then there's the huge bonus. Instead of someone only buying a set of pistons and rings once a year and maybe crank seals every 3-4 years now they get to sell thousands of dollars worth of parts each year. How can you beat that? What I'm afraid of is that the current reliable 4-stroke DP engines will also go away and even the DP riders will be forced to go through frequent re-builds.

pplassm 11-01-2007 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gluge (Post 172623)
Haha 250 2-strokes would eat them up. A Honda RS250 makes around 70 hpr at the rear wheels. and weighs 250lbs (same weight they claim for these 450's) Where as the 450's make what 40 hpr at the rear wheel?

My less than $5000 RS125 makes 40 hpr at the rear wheels and only weighs 156lbs. I even race it in the 250 GP class and have a lot of fun.


Oh. Sorry. I was thinking 250cc two stroke singles, ala MXers.

Gluge 11-01-2007 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pplassm (Post 172651)
Oh. Sorry. I was thinking 250cc two stroke singles, ala MXers.

No problem. Talking about MX bikes I'd love to see 2-strokes in with the 450's... 300cc 2-strokes might be enough.

I think the reason 450's dominated the 250's was mid range power for not much more weight. I think peak power the 250's were still viable but for MX the broader power band was much more useful than road racing. I might be wrong though I don't really know what peak a 250 MXer makes vs a 450... that's just my understanding of it.

Pete247 06-23-2010 05:28 AM

dragging up an old thread....
 
Just joined the forum from a google search that pointed me at this thread.

I think these bikes are awesome, such a fantastic idea and am planning on building my own variation as a trackday tool. I am not going to be racing so am not constrained by the rules for the 450cc class. I had thought about converting my 2009 Husqvarna SM510R and still think it would be a fantastic beastie but I have an urge to go 2-stroke 8-)

I'm planning on getting a KTM EXC300-E as a road registered enduro bike, converting it to road race but keeping the lights so it will still be fully road legal. It will just be a toy so the regular oil changes and top end checks should not be too much bother.

Kevin_Duke 06-23-2010 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete247 (Post 244254)
Just joined the forum from a google search that pointed me at this thread.

I think these bikes are awesome, such a fantastic idea and am planning on building my own variation as a trackday tool. I am not going to be racing so am not constrained by the rules for the 450cc class. I had thought about converting my 2009 Husqvarna SM510R and still think it would be a fantastic beastie but I have an urge to go 2-stroke 8-)

I'm planning on getting a KTM EXC300-E as a road registered enduro bike, converting it to road race but keeping the lights so it will still be fully road legal. It will just be a toy so the regular oil changes and top end checks should not be too much bother.

Good to have you on board, Pete! But since you're looking for a 2-stroke trackday tool, why not just get a well-maintained TZ250? It would be hard to register for the street, but it would be much better dialed in for the track than trying to convert an EXC300.

Pete247 06-24-2010 10:53 AM

I am kind of after a project, and also want somit no one else has and so far with much googling have not found any 300exc's that have been converted to road race. I am still keeping my options open but a single cylinder 2 stroke will be far easier to work on and half the price to maintain than a twin would be :)

Kevin_Duke 06-24-2010 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete247 (Post 244365)
I am kind of after a project, and also want somit no one else has and so far with much googling have not found any 300exc's that have been converted to road race. I am still keeping my options open but a single cylinder 2 stroke will be far easier to work on and half the price to maintain than a twin would be :)

I admire your dedication to going your own way! Best wishes.

Pete247 06-24-2010 01:15 PM

cheers Kevin.... although I believe a fool and their cash is easily parted so hope I'm not biting off more than I can chew! lol :D


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