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-   -   2008 Star Motorcycles Raider (http://www.motorcycle.com/forum/motorcycle-general-discussion/6350-2008-star-motorcycles-raider.html)

longride 09-16-2007 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anrajala (Post 169257)
>If there wasn't something unique and cool about HDs,
>I doubt they'd have been in business for well over 100 years

Hmmm... not always that unique. Did you know that the first Harley V2was a diredt copy of a French V2 bike? Thus it could be claimed the Star is a copy of a copy.

- cruiz-euro

More bullshyt from the original bullshytter. Which French engine did that happen to be? What parts did Harley copy from it? Don't try to answer these questions, because you have no idea what you are talking about, as usual.

longride 09-16-2007 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anrajala (Post 169260)
>If Honda came out with a better copy of a Corvette,
>would you be inclined to buy one or drive the original?

Well they did indeed come up with a better copy (and they were not the only ones). Lots of people were inclined to buy them, so many indeed that the good ol vette has been hanging on there by the skin of its teeth.

- cruiz-euro

Well moron, name one car that is a Corvette copy? Just one will do. Take your time so you don't look like more of an idiot than you usually do. Go for it. One car that is a Vette copy.

Buzglyd 09-16-2007 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anrajala (Post 169260)
>If Honda came out with a better copy of a Corvette,
>would you be inclined to buy one or drive the original?

Well they did indeed come up with a better copy (and they were not the only ones). Lots of people were inclined to buy them, so many indeed that the good ol vette has been hanging on there by the skin of its teeth.

- cruiz-euro

The Corvette is better than ever. There is no car anywhere near it's price range that can touch it. You back in one of those dope smokin' Euro countries again?

Kenneth_Moore 09-16-2007 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anrajala (Post 169257)
>If there wasn't something unique and cool about HDs,
>I doubt they'd have been in business for well over 100 years

Hmmm... not always that unique. Did you know that the first Harley V2was a diredt copy of a French V2 bike? Thus it could be claimed the Star is a copy of a copy.

- cruiz-euro

First, it's a lot more than just the engine that makes HD (or a Norton, or a Ducati, etc.) unique. Second, if you want to, you can find a number of early engines that looks remarkably similar to the HD v-twin. Google the Morgan 3 wheeled cars sometime. The engine on several models looks so much like an early HD it's scary.

Harleys are greater than the sum of their parts. Very few other bikes fall into that realm, IMO. The occasional Big 4 Japanese bike has attained that status, but the vast majority are consumed, disposed of, and quickly forgotten. Anyone who denies or ignores the cultural impact of HD around the world has their head up their butt. You may not like it, you might think it's stupid, but there it is.

The_AirHawk 09-16-2007 05:03 PM

The Genius Marketing-Ploy to put the brand-name on everything from Handbags and Wallets to Cigarettes and Beef-Jerky, or Welding-hoods and Hardhats didn't hurt a damn thing, either. They built The Motor Company back-up from the '80s NOT on the merits of the Product-Line - but on the fabricated "Mystique" and Brand-Recognition.

God, I wish I'd seen just HOW Genius it was, back in the late-'80s.............

BigMike_1 09-16-2007 07:12 PM

Give it a rest already
 
If someone likes the Raider or any other Japanese cruiser, so what. This whole tribal bashing issue is tiresome. If anyone is honest, they have to face the fact that factory customs are based on machines chopped up, originally, by returing WWII veterans. All the manufacturers are in the business to make money, and will makes products people want to buy. Frankly, I would give Yamaha their due. They are pretty good at making stylish bikes - of course, their design team is in California, so it stands to reason the bikes would have a style reflecting the culture. HD is immensely successful more for the image, or is it fantasy, the company has marketed. It is nothing short of briliant, even if it's become the Gucci standard of bikedom.

sarnali2 09-16-2007 08:35 PM

I just like the bikes myself. Harley is the real deal this and any other Japanese cruiser is a copy, it's really as simple as that. I'm not saying HD is the be-all and end-all of motorcycles but for my money I buy the real thing. I have nothing against Japanese bikes, I've owned more than a few and I love my Bandit even though it doesn't get ridden as much as it used to.

IMO, if this Yammie flips your switch then by all means, off you go and have fun but the fact is it and the other Japanese cruisers are copies. The simple fact is Harley and Triumph with the Speedmaster and Bonnevilles are the only valid originals. If you want to be anal about it, Superglides, FLH's, Bonnevilles and Sportsters are the only original designs out there, the rest are all copies and spin-offs.

And, the Opal GT was if not a copy of the 70's Corvette and pretty durn close.

anrajala 09-16-2007 11:53 PM

Vette, the state of the art engineering showcase
 
Longride you sound agitated again for some reason. Might be blood pressure issues. Have you ever considered laying off the pills and try meditation? So, any RWD boy racer sports car with a powerful engine in the front is a vette copy. To help you along a little, Saab 96 is not a Vette copy since its FWD. Any other questions you might have I would be glad to answer.

- cruiz-euro

anrajala 09-17-2007 01:48 AM

Nip museum
 
You are right. The japanese sport bike history with the 2- and four strokers, different cylinder numbers and configurations is all the same. I mean there is no difference between them. The cruisers have at least variety.

- cruiz-euro

anrajala 09-17-2007 02:35 AM

Only HD is the original and everybody else is aping it. Yeah.

"American production motorcycles were also based on the DeDion-Buton engine. The two most famous American motorcycle manufacturers to incorporate the DeDion-Buton engine, however, were the Indian Motorcycle Company and Harley-Davidson."

Howstuffworks "Motorcycle History"

If you read the article you will find out that not only HD copied the French design but also improved it, grabbing market share - achieving the largest bike manufacturer status twenty years later. Deja vu, anyone?

- cruiz-euro


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