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Old 08-30-2007, 08:25 AM   #31
nweaver
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I'll definatyl be trying one when I have a chance.

I've demoed effectively all of the previous Buells (BeeLast, XB9/XB12 and Ulysseus), and it was always "Nice chassis, but the engine should be shot".

I'd not BUY one, the mechanic I use is "Japanese Only", but if it wasn't for that (and just having gotten a big A#@)* concours), I'd seriously consider one.
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Old 08-30-2007, 08:39 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_Brissette View Post
You might want to take that argument up with Buell, an engineer/designer, himself.

A quote from Buell materials in re ZTL brakes (perimeter mounted):

"This allows for the design of an extremely light wheel, reducing steering inertia and unsprung weight for exceptional feel and agility."

And yes, I realize such "materials" often say what sellers of product want them to say. But I'm certain Erik Buell would agree with the copy... the brake is his idea.
Do the math, and you will see that having 2x the radius on the heavy brake disk really increases rotational inertia at reasonable speeds.

Its why some superbikes in britain have actually gone for 4-disk brakes with really small diameter (airplane style), it may increase the unsprung weight but it reduces the rotational inertia.

The rotational intertia is "m r^2", so 1/2 the mass but 2x the radius is 2x the rotational inertia.

I'm not actually saying its a bad idea. Its actually a GREAT idea, its just the effect is more subtle and more important than just lower unsprung weight, and "making the steering lighter" is not actually one of them in general.

It is true that at very LOW speeds, the steering is easier because you don't need a damper, but at high speeds it stiffens up more (as I said, the same effect Honda does with fancy electronics) as the gyroscopic effect on the front wheel is significantly more then a conventional brake.

And if Eric Buell actually agreed with that bit of add copy, don't trust his bikes. He KNOWS this, and he uses this to the advantage of the bike, allowing a rather wicked (21 degree) rake without a steering damper.

Compare with the CBR600RR's agressive rake of 23.7 degrees, which requires a fancy electronic damper to keep the bike from shaking into oblivion.
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Old 08-30-2007, 08:51 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore View Post
That is interesting! Thanks for the info. Let the Greek mythology jokes begin!
The very idea is Greek to me.
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Old 08-30-2007, 09:03 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nweaver View Post
I'll definatyl be trying one when I have a chance.

I've demoed effectively all of the previous Buells (BeeLast, XB9/XB12 and Ulysseus), and it was always "Nice chassis, but the engine should be shot".

I'd not BUY one, the mechanic I use is "Japanese Only", but if it wasn't for that (and just having gotten a big A#@)* concours), I'd seriously consider one.
You sound very typical of all the people that won't be buying one:

"I'd buy one except for........(fill in excuse here).
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Old 08-30-2007, 09:31 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by longride View Post
You sound very typical of all the people that won't be buying one:

"I'd buy one except for........(fill in excuse here).
Yeah, that's a shame too.

You can go back and read through just about every single Buell review and the comments are all "Buell makes an outstanding bike with innovative chassis. Too bad they don't have a motor" or something very similar.

Now they get a truly worldclass motor and the complaints are "the fairing too wide, funny looking radiators, etc."

Face it, if it ain't an overpriced Italian juel, a Brit naked, or a Jap I4, it don't fit the click"

What a bunch of sport bike snobs on this site.
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Old 08-30-2007, 09:44 AM   #36
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I'd like to see how these bikes shake out at the track over the long term. And how awesome would it be to see Ducs, Buells, MVs and Aprilias mixing it up in the Suzukibike, I mean Superbike races?
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Old 08-30-2007, 09:51 AM   #37
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[quote=nweaver;168485]Do the math, and you will see that having 2x the radius on the heavy brake disk really increases rotational inertia at reasonable speeds.

Its why some superbikes in britain have actually gone for 4-disk brakes with really small diameter (airplane style), it may increase the unsprung weight but it reduces the rotational inertia.

The rotational intertia is "m r^2", so 1/2 the mass but 2x the radius is 2x the rotational inertia.

It is true that at very LOW speeds, the steering is easier because you don't need a damper, but at high speeds it stiffens up more (as I said, the same effect Honda does with fancy electronics) as the gyroscopic effect on the front wheel is significantly more then a conventional brake.

QUOTE]

I'm no expert on this stuff, but hey, I never let that stop me from blabbing about something before, why start now?

Is this scenario possible: The brake rotor design used on the Buell allows such a dramatic reduction in the wheel weight that any rotational interia increase caused by the larger rotors is overcome? Or, taking the "system" view, does the rotor/wheel combination produce a NET gain in overall performance?

Besides, who really cares? They look diffferent and cool, and that's 90% of the game for 90% of the buyers!
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Old 08-30-2007, 10:05 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenjim View Post
And how awesome would it be to see Ducs, Buells, MVs and Aprilias mixing it up in the Suzukibike, I mean Superbike races?
I always say, if you are going to dream, dream big!
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Old 08-30-2007, 10:25 AM   #39
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Believe the Hype!

From the Buell website:

"Braking forces applied directly to rim instead of through the spokes produce outstanding stopping power and a light wheel design. Also, the brake assembly design weighs significantly less than a dual disc system, contributing to a reduction in unsprung weight."
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Old 08-30-2007, 10:43 AM   #40
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I just read Franklins view in MCN...

He slammed it really - close but no cigar - and berated EB for bringing an unfinished motorcycle to the press party.

The exhaust, "looks like it was knocked out by a visually impaired, physically challenged person in a shed"

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I think the Euros might go for this one in a big way.
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