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Old 08-07-2007, 12:13 PM   #21
BrowningBAR
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"starting in 2010"
-That's too soon. There are only two model years remaining for that to happen.

If the EPA and Euro standards do in fact cause issues with the Ducs and HD, than long-term, over the next ten years (2017), sure.

2 model years is just too quick to make such wide spread changes. They would have had to already start preparing the market for it with PR and test releases with a model or two.

Now, if you said you could see the transition starting in 2010 and within a several years after the model lines would be revamped, that would seem possible.
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Old 08-07-2007, 12:14 PM   #22
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Dare I say that it's the end of Buell/Sporty motors. This is only the beginning of the transformation. By 2009 all Buell motors will be water-cooled.
Ok, maybe it is. No matter how you slice it, getting 50 years out of the same basic design is a pretty good ROI. However, we must never underestimate HD's ability to move slowly. The cost to build on a Sportster motor must be about $50 for raw materials and $350 for labor. All the machines, tools, facilities, etc. were amortized years ago I suspect.
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Old 08-07-2007, 12:18 PM   #23
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Hey, HD managed to keep the v-rod motor mostly a secret for 5-6 yrs while developing it. With a redesign of the jugs & heads of the v-rod motor to increase displacement, for tour duty, it's possible HD could already be testing this motor. Also, water-cooled doesn't necessarily mean "fully water-cooled". Look at the VN2000 Kawasaki- only the heads are water-cooled right? They managed to get a bunch of power out of that motor and crossed the air/water hurdles. Possibilities are many. Solutions only cost money and design is subjective. HD will jump in the water-cooled pool sooner than most believe possible.
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Old 08-07-2007, 12:22 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by acecycleins View Post
Hey, HD managed to keep the v-rod motor mostly a secret for 5-6 yrs while developing it. With a redesign of the jugs & heads of the v-rod motor to increase displacement, for tour duty, it's possible HD could already be testing this motor. Also, water-cooled doesn't necessarily mean "fully water-cooled". Look at the VN2000 Kawasaki- only the heads are water-cooled right? They managed to get a bunch of power out of that motor and crossed the air/water hurdles. Possibilities are many. Solutions only cost money and design is subjective. HD will jump in the water-cooled pool sooner than most believe possible.
Not sure about you, but rumors and spy pictures were out on the V-Rod for 3 years before it came out. I haven't seen anything on the development of a new motor at H-D. Plus, the V-Rod sure is a big hit here in the states, eh? I'm sure their next water-cooled efforts will be as well received.
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Old 08-07-2007, 12:25 PM   #25
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Not sure about you, but rumors and spy pictures were out on the V-Rod for 3 years before it came out. I haven't seen anything on the development of a new motor at H-D. Plus, the V-Rod sure is a big hit here in the states, eh? I'm sure their next water-cooled efforts will be as well received.
As long as they can get the motor to sound like a pushrod single crank pin, they'll be golden. I used to like to sell used bikes more than new because they almost always had aftermarket exhausts. All I had to do was crank the bike up and cha-ching!
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Old 08-07-2007, 12:28 PM   #26
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I'd certainly help out with a long term test also. If you don't mind me running it in the Minnesota weather.
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Old 08-07-2007, 12:38 PM   #27
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Quote:
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Not sure about you, but rumors and spy pictures were out on the V-Rod for 3 years before it came out. I haven't seen anything on the development of a new motor at H-D. Plus, the V-Rod sure is a big hit here in the states, eh? I'm sure their next water-cooled efforts will be as well received.
Took a decade to develop that (v-rod) motor and the public only found out 3-4 yrs before release. That's a good secret. V-rods sell great everyewhere but here. We are the largest market for HD but not the only market. Euroweenies and Asia are making up ground fast and HD knows that. If you bugged the right people within HD I'd wager development is more than half-way complete on a "new" powerplant.
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Old 08-07-2007, 12:49 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acecycleins View Post
Took a decade to develop that (v-rod) motor and the public only found out 3-4 yrs before release. That's a good secret. V-rods sell great everyewhere but here. We are the largest market for HD but not the only market. Euroweenies and Asia are making up ground fast and HD knows that. If you bugged the right people within HD I'd wager development is more than half-way complete on a "new" powerplant.
I think the V-Rod IS their 'new' powerplant. I doubt they will make a completely different one. They will just modify what is already made.
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Old 08-07-2007, 12:54 PM   #29
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I think the V-Rod IS their 'new' powerplant. I doubt they will make a completely different one. They will just modify what is already made.
That's what I was saying. The V-Rod motor would be a great modified plant, but it's entirely possible for HD to pull a Kawasaki here and only "cool" the necesary parts to comply with emissions. Probably wouldn't be too hard to make a new set of "jacketed" jugs and heads for the TC motor.
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Old 08-07-2007, 03:44 PM   #30
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Quote:
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Probably wouldn't be too hard to make a new set of "jacketed" jugs and heads for the TC motor.
No disrespect, but I don't get you here - exactly what do you think a water-cooled moto-engine is? Jacketed jugs and heads, right? (that's what I thought)

I can't think of any water-cooled moto that has "internals" (i.e. crank main bearings, etc.) that are water-cooled, just the upper-cylinder and head(s), occasionally bits of the plumbing will be cast-integrally with the cases, but usually not. Sometimes, the water pump isn't even a "part" of the engine-case itself, it's just "tacked on" to the end of the crank (or countershaft).
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