Go Back   Motorcycle Forum > Motorcycle.Com General Discussion > Motorcycle General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-14-2012, 02:38 PM   #31
The Spaceman
Registered Member
 
The Spaceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,448
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzglyd View Post
You were just telling us range has tripled.

I guess bullshyt has tripled.
You honestly can't tell the difference between an EPA figure and measured distances? Really?
__________________
318 curves in 11 miles."
The Spaceman is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links Remove Advertisements
Motorcycle Forum
Advertisement
Old 12-14-2012, 06:55 PM   #32
pdad13
Founding Member
 
pdad13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,754
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Spaceman View Post
The point remains that it's up to the individual to figure out that an "Miles Per Gallon" figure for an electric car cannot be anything but a number somebody made up.
I would argue that naming the measure "MPGe" means the EPA intends quite the opposite.

Listen, all I want the EPA to do is provide a resonably accurate number that I can use to help determine if I want to buy one of these things. Guess what? I might actually buy one someday. Really. They sound like they could be fun and useful once they become more practical. I really like the Tesla S, too!

What I don't want the EPA to do is pass off some overly rosy number to the public in the hope that they'll provide another layer of covert subsidies (which we'll now pay for through sales) to companies with sub-par products.

My whole problem with the way EVs are being marketed is simple. Good advertising kills bad products faster than anything. That's the mistake here and it will eventually cripple this industry before it even gets on its feet.

Remember, almost none of these companies are viable businesses yet.

Last edited by pdad13 : 12-14-2012 at 07:15 PM.
pdad13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 10:53 PM   #33
Buzglyd
Founding Member
 
Buzglyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,904
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Spaceman View Post
You honestly can't tell the difference between an EPA figure and measured distances? Really?
Measured distances my a$$.
Buzglyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 06:02 AM   #34
seruzawa
The Toad

 
seruzawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: 8501 ft.
Posts: 17,461
Default

Ok. This one is really simple. The EPA is giving a number that compares the amount of fossil fuel necessary to generate the recharge needs of e-vehicles per miles traveled. This gives an MPG rating. The DoE did the same thing but included the real world generation losses which gives a far lower figure and also reveals that e-vehicles in reality use as much fuel as gasoline powered cars. There is no free lunch. Sorry if reality doesn't support the religious dogma of the True E Believers.
__________________
"Make no mistake, Communism lost a big argument - one we know today as the 20th century."

Last edited by seruzawa : 12-15-2012 at 06:14 AM.
seruzawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 12:14 PM   #35
schizuki
Founding Member
 
schizuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,030
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by seruzawa View Post
Ok. This one is really simple. The EPA is giving a number that compares the amount of fossil fuel necessary to generate the recharge needs of e-vehicles per miles traveled. This gives an MPG rating. The DoE did the same thing but included the real world generation losses which gives a far lower figure and also reveals that e-vehicles in reality use as much fuel as gasoline powered cars. There is no free lunch. Sorry if reality doesn't support the religious dogma of the True E Believers.
Dude... electricity comes from the wall socket. And... and solar. And it has, uh, electrolytes.
__________________
Reverēre meam auctōritātem

Bill Clinton and Chuck Schumer are praising the Supreme Court for overturning an anti-gay-marriage law that they both signed.
schizuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 10:25 AM   #36
Kevin_Duke
Motorcycle.com Staff

 
Kevin_Duke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,087
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schizuki View Post
An MPG-equivalent measure is just pointless and dumb. We don't rate cars by a Bucket of Oats Per Day equivalent (though the existence of horsepower measurements may undercut my point.)

Tell us how far it goes in an actual real-world test, and how much that range costs at a particular kilowatt/hour rate.
Any MPGe is silly. The EPA UDDS ratings might be unrealistic, but they are useful when comparing e-bikes. Real-world ratings depend so much on what your world consists of. Add it all up, and it simply supports consumers checking in to MO to find out the real scoop!

Stay tuned for a Zero S review. We got 62 miles of hard use on Latigo Canyon and PCH and a bit of freeway.
__________________
"The trouble with the world is that the Stupid are c0cksure and the Intelligent are full of doubt." -Bertrand Russell
Kevin_Duke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 12:00 PM   #37
Buzglyd
Founding Member
 
Buzglyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,904
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin_Duke View Post
Any MPGe is silly. The EPA UDDS ratings might be unrealistic, but they are useful when comparing e-bikes. Real-world ratings depend so much on what your world consists of. Add it all up, and it simply supports consumers checking in to MO to find out the real scoop!

Stay tuned for a Zero S review. We got 62 miles of hard use on Latigo Canyon and PCH and a bit of freeway.
Who towed you home?

Ha ha!
Buzglyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 04:56 PM   #38
12er
Founding Member
 
12er's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: SF
Posts: 2,801
Default

See that the Brammo has a cameo in the new capital one commercial with alec as the secret agent? Looks like the chicka that is his "backup" slides one in. No fumes on the set I guess.
12er is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 05:22 PM   #39
jmdonald
Founding Member
 
jmdonald's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 1,291
Default Common sense

Wouldn't it make more sense to divide the kilowatt hours to charge by the miles ridden instead of some contrived miles per gallon metric?
__________________
Secede.
jmdonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 06:28 PM   #40
schizuki
Founding Member
 
schizuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,030
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdonald View Post
Wouldn't it make more sense to divide the kilowatt hours to charge by the miles ridden instead of some contrived miles per gallon metric?
You ask for logic, Theo, I give you the E...P... A.
__________________
Reverēre meam auctōritātem

Bill Clinton and Chuck Schumer are praising the Supreme Court for overturning an anti-gay-marriage law that they both signed.
schizuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off