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Old 04-18-2012, 10:03 AM   #11
The Spaceman
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Originally Posted by pushrod View Post
However, I will admit it would come in handy around here when one tries to accelerate around a corner that turns out to be sandy.
Or if you've been hinking dreavily and try to get all Ruben Xaus on the way home...
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Old 04-19-2012, 11:01 AM   #12
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I think it was Phil Hill who said that once Formula 1 cars got better brakes it was a lot harder to pass once someone got in the lead. He felt it took away from the excitement of the race. I see this technology adding to the Moto races not to mention the average Joe's survival out on the street. Very interesting to see all the data points and fixes within the different systems. These technologies add to the moto experience and I welcome them. Nice write up.
I welcome these technologies, too, but I'd like to keep them off all top-level racing machines - they take away from all the things a rider/driver can influence, and I want to see racers race, not engineers. It'll be interesting to see how the British Superbike championship plays out this year with their control ECUs than eliminate TC and wheelie control. Hopefully well, as I'd love to again see MotoGP riders sliding their bikes around!
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Old 04-19-2012, 11:13 AM   #13
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A very enlightening article. I'd picked up some info on T/C from various sources; this is the first comprehensive look at T/C I've read. However, it raises almost as many questions as it answers:

1. Is launch control available?
2. What types of processors are used, how fast are they, and how greatly do they differentiate the systems capabilities?
3. Is there a common data bus for all the sensors that integrates with the ECU's data bus?
4. Do they to redesign existing systems like EFI and ABS to work with T/C, or do they just patch it in?
5. Can the systems be re-flashed in the field, i.e. upgraded, or is what you got what you get? Can they be "hacked?"
6. What is the liability exposure with these systems if they fail or have a bug?
7. What will Mr. Duke do for photo opportunties if wheelie control becomes ubiquitous?
1. Only on the Aprilia so far. And, even then, it's nothing like a car's LC. All it does is hold rpm at a certain level - clutch modulation is solely up to its rider.
2. That information isn't shared.
3. I believe so, as the more info the ECU has, the better its decisions.
4. It's relatively easy to patch in TC with an existing ABS, as wheel speed info is key to most TC systems.
5. If you're keen on hacking a system, like for racing, it's likely easiest to use a customizable aftermarket system.
6. Let's hope this isn't an issue. Liability concerns is one of the reasons Jap OEMs were/are hesitant to offer these systems.
7. Let's hope the engineers always include a WC off switch!
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Old 04-19-2012, 11:14 AM   #14
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I hate to say, that I doubt it. The "typical" moto traffic-crash involves an oncoming-automobile, alcohol, or some combination of those. Neither of which can be helped much with TC.
Mr. Hawk is entirely correct, as the vast majority of bike accidents don't involve a loss of rear-wheel traction.
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Old 04-19-2012, 11:32 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Kevin_Duke View Post
I welcome these technologies, too, but I'd like to keep them off all top-level racing machines - they take away from all the things a rider/driver can influence, and I want to see racers race, not engineers. It'll be interesting to see how the British Superbike championship plays out this year with their control ECUs than eliminate TC and wheelie control. Hopefully well, as I'd love to again see MotoGP riders sliding their bikes around!
A good point Mr. Duke. Rider/Driver influenced control should be the make or break variable in top level competition. So easily swept up in the wave of new technolgy and the promise of high performance. My sanity has returned.
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Old 04-19-2012, 12:05 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Kevin_Duke View Post
I welcome these technologies, too, but I'd like to keep them off all top-level racing machines - they take away from all the things a rider/driver can influence, and I want to see racers race, not engineers. It'll be interesting to see how the British Superbike championship plays out this year with their control ECUs than eliminate TC and wheelie control. Hopefully well, as I'd love to again see MotoGP riders sliding their bikes around!
I don't see it that way. Engineers (and mechanics) have always had a hand in the success or failure of racers. Look at Red Bull F1 last year; an exhaust diffuser made their season. Unless you go back to the days when racers built and wrenched their own bikes, it's really just a matter of degree as to how much an engineer has. An us engineers think we should have a LOT of influence!
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Old 04-19-2012, 01:12 PM   #17
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Traction control is not just for sportbikes anymore. This year, Piaggio is introducing not just one but two scooters.

The Piaggio Beverly 350 has ABS and Anti-Slip Regulation (aka traction control) and the new flagship Piaggio X10 maxi-scooter has ABS, traction control and electronic suspension.

Only the Beverly 350 is coming to the U.S. (as the less-feminine sounding BV350) but it will not have either ABS or TC.
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Old 04-20-2012, 10:37 AM   #18
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I don't see it that way. Engineers (and mechanics) have always had a hand in the success or failure of racers. Look at Red Bull F1 last year; an exhaust diffuser made their season. Unless you go back to the days when racers built and wrenched their own bikes, it's really just a matter of degree as to how much an engineer has. An us engineers think we should have a LOT of influence!
Graciously, you help support my contention. Last year's F1 season would've been far more exciting had the Newey-designed Red Bull car not been so dominant.

Engineers will always play a pivotal role in how well a bike/rider will perform, but I want to see the balance shifted as far as possible to the rider, as their influence is something we can see on the track, unlike clever algorithms that are invisibly working behind the scenes.
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:08 AM   #19
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Last year's F1 season would've been far more exciting had the Newey-designed Red Bull car not been so dominant.
Sebastian Vettel might disagree with that! But seriously, I get your point and you're right: if one driver runs away with every race (Stoner) it's not good. OTOH, there has to be some differences between the machines; otherwise there's no "Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday" to justify the expense of fielding a vehicle.
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:24 AM   #20
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Sebastian Vettel might disagree with that! But seriously, I get your point and you're right: if one driver runs away with every race (Stoner) it's not good. OTOH, there has to be some differences between the machines; otherwise there's no "Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday" to justify the expense of fielding a vehicle.
I rate Vettel very highly, but he's not doing so hot this year since they banned Newey's blown diffusers. As a consequence, the last race was one of the most exciting F1 races I've seen in a long time.

I do agree the machines should be different and distinct. The last few years of IndyCar when they used spec engines and chassis didn't interest me. Glad to see there's now a choice of engines in the new spec Dallara chassis.
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