Huss

They are fun, and convenient. I just don't care for the feeling of CVTs much , nor the disappointment of not getting the thrust you'd hope for given the size of the moto.

Kevin_Duke

As my math teacher used to demand, let's see your work. I'll bet the Griso in running order with a full tank of fuel (forget the "dry weight" Guzzi claims) weighs pretty close to the C600. And at 110 crank hp vs 70 hp, that's nowhere close to 2.5 times as much.

Not that I'd rather have the scooter than a Griso!

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"The trouble with the world is that the Stupid are c0cksure and the Intelligent are full of doubt." -Bertrand Russell

Kevin_Duke

Yep, a CVT is heavier than a normal manual tranny. And don't forget neck-to-toe wind protection has to add some weight, too. And if it didn't have a CVT, it would barely be a scooter anymore!

Something lighter, whatever it is, always costs more. Would more people buy the C600 if it weighed 25 lbs less but cost $2000 more?

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"The trouble with the world is that the Stupid are c0cksure and the Intelligent are full of doubt." -Bertrand Russell

Beer Baron

You could get the TMax which weighs 50lbs. less and it costs about $1.5 to 2k less (based on BMW pricing estimates to date).

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Dan

1984 Honda Nighthawk cb650sc

Kevin_Duke

The TMax's low weight is admirable, but a Yamaha source says it would need an MSRP above $11,000 if sold in America, probably more.

A BMW source says the C600's price in Europe "won't have much influence on the U.S. pricing." Expect $10K or less.

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"The trouble with the world is that the Stupid are c0cksure and the Intelligent are full of doubt." -Bertrand Russell

Beer Baron

Kevin are you referring to the newly updated TMax? As the current model, which is a 2011, is $8.5k msrp.

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Dan

1984 Honda Nighthawk cb650sc

Kevin_Duke

Yeah, the new TMax. Yamaha USA wanted to import them, but they couldn't make a business case for it at the high MSRP it would need to be priced at here.

__________________
"The trouble with the world is that the Stupid are c0cksure and the Intelligent are full of doubt." -Bertrand Russell

Huss

The Griso has been dynoed at 98hp-ish at the rear wheel. 70-ish torque.

2011 Moto Guzzi Griso 8V SE Road Test

The BMW is most probably going to put down about 40hp at the wheel thanks to the CVT.

40 times 2.5 = 100....

Kevin_Duke

Thanks for the link. Guzzi is underepresenting the 8Vs power, as it's typical to lose at least 15% from a crank measurement to the wheel of a shaft-driven cycle.

But I don't agree with your estimate of 40 horses at the wheel of the BMW. In the article, I estimated 50 hp. 50 x 2.5 = 125.

So, twice as much power but about the same weight.

Did you also see how the Griso weighs 553 lbs wet?

__________________
"The trouble with the world is that the Stupid are c0cksure and the Intelligent are full of doubt." -Bertrand Russell

Huss

Yes, but that weight is Italian curves vs. German thickness..

I mean, just look at those perky jugs on the Griso! That's where a lot of the weight is, and who here doesn't like big Italian perky jugs?