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Old 03-07-2012, 03:42 PM   #11
Huss
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You're right, Huss. I guess the weight comes from the cvt? I still wanna test ride the BMW just to see what it's all about.
They are fun, and convenient. I just don't care for the feeling of CVTs much , nor the disappointment of not getting the thrust you'd hope for given the size of the moto.
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Old 03-07-2012, 05:59 PM   #12
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Heck, even my lardy new Guzzi Griso SE weighs less than the BMW scoot! And makes about 2.5 times the powah.
As my math teacher used to demand, let's see your work. I'll bet the Griso in running order with a full tank of fuel (forget the "dry weight" Guzzi claims) weighs pretty close to the C600. And at 110 crank hp vs 70 hp, that's nowhere close to 2.5 times as much.

Not that I'd rather have the scooter than a Griso!
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Old 03-07-2012, 06:16 PM   #13
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You're right, Huss. I guess the weight comes from the cvt? I still wanna test ride the BMW just to see what it's all about.
Yep, a CVT is heavier than a normal manual tranny. And don't forget neck-to-toe wind protection has to add some weight, too. And if it didn't have a CVT, it would barely be a scooter anymore!

Something lighter, whatever it is, always costs more. Would more people buy the C600 if it weighed 25 lbs less but cost $2000 more?
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:08 PM   #14
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Yep, a CVT is heavier than a normal manual tranny. And don't forget neck-to-toe wind protection has to add some weight, too. And if it didn't have a CVT, it would barely be a scooter anymore!

Something lighter, whatever it is, always costs more. Would more people buy the C600 if it weighed 25 lbs less but cost $2000 more?
You could get the TMax which weighs 50lbs. less and it costs about $1.5 to 2k less (based on BMW pricing estimates to date).
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Old 03-08-2012, 12:00 AM   #15
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You could get the TMax which weighs 50lbs. less and it costs about $1.5 to 2k less (based on BMW pricing estimates to date).
The TMax's low weight is admirable, but a Yamaha source says it would need an MSRP above $11,000 if sold in America, probably more.

A BMW source says the C600's price in Europe "won't have much influence on the U.S. pricing." Expect $10K or less.
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:20 AM   #16
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Kevin are you referring to the newly updated TMax? As the current model, which is a 2011, is $8.5k msrp.
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Old 03-08-2012, 09:48 AM   #17
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Kevin are you referring to the newly updated TMax? As the current model, which is a 2011, is $8.5k msrp.
Yeah, the new TMax. Yamaha USA wanted to import them, but they couldn't make a business case for it at the high MSRP it would need to be priced at here.
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Old 03-08-2012, 12:31 PM   #18
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As my math teacher used to demand, let's see your work. I'll bet the Griso in running order with a full tank of fuel (forget the "dry weight" Guzzi claims) weighs pretty close to the C600. And at 110 crank hp vs 70 hp, that's nowhere close to 2.5 times as much.

Not that I'd rather have the scooter than a Griso!
The Griso has been dynoed at 98hp-ish at the rear wheel. 70-ish torque.

2011 Moto Guzzi Griso 8V SE Road Test

The BMW is most probably going to put down about 40hp at the wheel thanks to the CVT.

40 times 2.5 = 100....

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Old 03-08-2012, 02:14 PM   #19
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The Griso has been dynoed at 98hp-ish at the rear wheel. 70-ish torque.

2011 Moto Guzzi Griso 8V SE Road Test

The BMW is most probably going to put down about 40hp at the wheel thanks to the CVT.

40 times 2.5 = 100....
Thanks for the link. Guzzi is underepresenting the 8Vs power, as it's typical to lose at least 15% from a crank measurement to the wheel of a shaft-driven cycle.

But I don't agree with your estimate of 40 horses at the wheel of the BMW. In the article, I estimated 50 hp. 50 x 2.5 = 125.

So, twice as much power but about the same weight.

Did you also see how the Griso weighs 553 lbs wet?
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:36 PM   #20
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Yes, but that weight is Italian curves vs. German thickness..

I mean, just look at those perky jugs on the Griso! That's where a lot of the weight is, and who here doesn't like big Italian perky jugs?
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