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Kevin_Duke · 03-02-2012, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seruzawa

My mind can't wrap around the idea of 250cc dirt bikes that weigh 300 lbs.

Do other parts of reality also bother you?

Buzglyd · 03-02-2012, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin_Duke

Do other parts of reality also bother you?

He doesn't live behind a walled compound for nothing!

pdad13 · 03-04-2012, 09:22 AM

Okay, one request. Can we stop insisting that EV's "are the future of motorcycling"? Because that's really just an assumption.

I would be more inclined to agree that EV's are part of the future of motorcycling and personal transport in general.

Everyone is assuming that we'll have EV-ICE parity within a few short years. Erm, it doesn't really look that way. While battery performance is improving, it's not happening that fast. We'll need a real leap in battery tech, like, perhaps, the semi-flow battery concept they're working on at MIT. But even that concept has some major issues to resolve and likely won't see any practical application for another decade. There are some other improvements in energy density on the horizon for lithium-ion batteries, but consider that, even though ICEs are pretty energy inefficient, batteries still have to get a lot better to get in the same performance/range/price ballpark.

So EVs will probably remain limited-use vehicles for a while yet. And that's fine. If I can justify it and have a need, I could even own one. In the meantime, it feels like we're ignoring other options like alternative fuels, which, in some respects, might be a better solution.

And then Buz can keep his booming exhaust note.

The Spaceman · 03-04-2012, 10:26 AM

pdad, I agree completely that EVs are not a replacement for ICE, but an alternative. I.e.: Cars and horses shared the same roads until the 1940's in parts of the US.

As for battery tech, the rate of improvement on range, battery life, and performance is astonishing. See my post "Senor Zawa: Never say Never" for just one example of how Envia Inc. has quadrupled E-car battery performance while lowering cost.

schizuki · 03-04-2012, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Spaceman

See my post "Senor Zawa: Never say Never" for just one example of how Envia Inc. has quadrupled E-car battery performance while lowering cost.

And it is expected to be on the market in (wait for it)... three to five years.

Duken4evr · 03-04-2012, 02:48 PM

For reference sake, a WR250R dual sport weighs about 300 pounds.

At 310mm, the front brake, if anything, seems like massive overkill. The big rotor is more subject to damage when off road too. I would also prefer normal 21/18 wheels on a dual sport too. Likely the current wheels were chosen for efficiency and low rolling resistance. It would be fun for someone with money to burn who owns say 2.5 acres of land in a residental area to set up a track, mount some knobbies and moto on a Zero. How could the most tree hugging of neighbors complain when it makes no noise at all?

This could be great for riding the urban midnight enduro too. Stairs, sidewalks. Imagine the potential merriment and utter lawlessness this silent and capable bike could bring out in a rider. Demented minds want to know - with no gears to change, reponsive "electric smooth" power and "throttle response" tunable by iPhone (someday), might this little Zero be a good wheelie monster? Will it zip up and down a flight of stairs? I bet it can. Oh the possibilities...

As a dirt bike nut, I wonder about the characteristics of the electric motor in real no excuses hard core off road situations. How is the torque and "hook up" in techical terrain? Wondering if this bike would not be a great rock crawler. At least you don't have to worry about it getting hot and boiling over in such conditions.

Scot Harden is a hard core dirt bike and former KTM guy. I think we have more to see in the future that will be of even greater interest. Very cool. Keep at it boys. Oh, and send me one of these with the big battery pack and I will ride the hell out of it and "field test" it for you on the rocky rough trails of Colorado and report back. I know it is a major hardship for me, but I am willing to do this

seruzawa · 03-04-2012, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schizuki

And it is expected to be on the market in (wait for it)... three to five years.

Quadrupled battery life is still woefully inadequate.

Kevin_Duke · 03-04-2012, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdad13

Okay, one request. Can we stop insisting that EV's "are the future of motorcycling"?

Depends on what your definition of "the future" is. I won't be around to see it, but I bet there'll be more EVs on the road 100 years from now than ICE-powered vehicles.

Kevin_Duke · 03-04-2012, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duken4evr

It would be fun for someone with money to burn who owns say 2.5 acres of land in a residental area to set up a track, mount some knobbies and moto on a Zero. How could the most tree hugging of neighbors complain when it makes no noise at all?

We're pursuing such a story. Stay tuned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duken4evr

As a dirt bike nut, I wonder about the characteristics of the electric motor in real no excuses hard core off road situations. How is the torque and "hook up" in techical terrain? Wondering if this bike would not be a great rock crawler. At least you don't have to worry about it getting hot and boiling over in such conditions.

Zero also has its MX model for dirtbiking. We'd like to test the latest version.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duken4evr

Scot Harden is a hard core dirt bike and former KTM guy. I think we have more to see in the future that will be of even greater interest. Very cool. Keep at it boys. Oh, and send me one of these with the big battery pack and I will ride the hell out of it and "field test" it for you on the rocky rough trails of Colorado and report back. I know it is a major hardship for me, but I am willing to do this

And no power loss at high elevations!

Buzglyd · 03-04-2012, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin_Duke

Depends on what your definition of "the future" is. I won't be around to see it, but I bet there'll be more EVs on the road 100 years from now than ICE-powered vehicles.

Only if the gov't legislates IC out of existence.

Kind of hard to "gas up" your EV dirt bike in the desert with a couple of 5 gallon jerry cans.

03-04-2012, 10:26 AM	#14
The Spaceman Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,394	pdad, I agree completely that EVs are not a replacement for ICE, but an alternative. I.e.: Cars and horses shared the same roads until the 1940's in parts of the US. As for battery tech, the rate of improvement on range, battery life, and performance is astonishing. See my post "Senor Zawa: Never say Never" for just one example of how Envia Inc. has quadrupled E-car battery performance while lowering cost. __________________ *"Adidas has officially unveiled the Adidas Bystander, the first shoe designed for running away from a mass public shooting."*

03-04-2012, 02:48 PM	#16
Duken4evr Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 706	For reference sake, a WR250R dual sport weighs about 300 pounds. At 310mm, the front brake, if anything, seems like massive overkill. The big rotor is more subject to damage when off road too. I would also prefer normal 21/18 wheels on a dual sport too. Likely the current wheels were chosen for efficiency and low rolling resistance. It would be fun for someone with money to burn who owns say 2.5 acres of land in a residental area to set up a track, mount some knobbies and moto on a Zero. How could the most tree hugging of neighbors complain when it makes no noise at all? This could be great for riding the urban midnight enduro too. Stairs, sidewalks. Imagine the potential merriment and utter lawlessness this silent and capable bike could bring out in a rider. Demented minds want to know - with no gears to change, reponsive "electric smooth" power and "throttle response" tunable by iPhone (someday), might this little Zero be a good wheelie monster? Will it zip up and down a flight of stairs? I bet it can. Oh the possibilities... As a dirt bike nut, I wonder about the characteristics of the electric motor in real no excuses hard core off road situations. How is the torque and "hook up" in techical terrain? Wondering if this bike would not be a great rock crawler. At least you don't have to worry about it getting hot and boiling over in such conditions. Scot Harden is a hard core dirt bike and former KTM guy. I think we have more to see in the future that will be of even greater interest. Very cool. Keep at it boys. Oh, and send me one of these with the big battery pack and I will ride the hell out of it and "field test" it for you on the rocky rough trails of Colorado and report back. I know it is a major hardship for me, but I am willing to do this Last edited by Duken4evr : 03-04-2012 at 02:58 PM.

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03-04-2012, 09:22 AM	#13
pdad13 Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,753	Okay, one request. Can we stop insisting that EV's "are the future of motorcycling"? Because that's really just an assumption. I would be more inclined to agree that EV's are part of the future of motorcycling and personal transport in general. Everyone is assuming that we'll have EV-ICE parity within a few short years. Erm, it doesn't really look that way. While battery performance is improving, it's not happening that fast. We'll need a real leap in battery tech, like, perhaps, the semi-flow battery concept they're working on at MIT. But even that concept has some major issues to resolve and likely won't see any practical application for another decade. There are some other improvements in energy density on the horizon for lithium-ion batteries, but consider that, even though ICEs are pretty energy inefficient, batteries still have to get a lot better to get in the same performance/range/price ballpark. So EVs will probably remain limited-use vehicles for a while yet. And that's fine. If I can justify it and have a need, I could even own one. In the meantime, it feels like we're ignoring other options like alternative fuels, which, in some respects, might be a better solution. And then Buz can keep his booming exhaust note.