2012 Harley-Davidson Seventy-Two and Softail Slim Preview

[Buzglyd]

Originally Posted by The Spaceman

Yeah..what a dumbass that guy is. Reading all those "facts" and "figures," and drawing "conclusions" from them.

I'm glad I'm stoopid too.

Demographic Headwinds Hitting Harley-Davidson - Seeking Alpha

That article is three years old Kenneth.

If Harley's aging buyers are hurting sales, then what's The Big Four's excuse?

600 sport bike sales are in the toilet.

[The Spaceman]

Originally Posted by Buzglyd

That article is three years old Kenneth.

If Harley's aging buyers are hurting sales, then what's The Big Four's excuse?

600 sport bike sales are in the toilet.

Demographic trends are a little longer-term than a few years, Buzz. Harley themselves say their core market of "Baby Boomers" is going away and they have to address it.

When I worked for HD, Sportsters were a small fraction of sales, and were low-margin bikes. HD has made their money in the past few decades with big-twins; Road Kings, Ultras, and variations on the Softail line. The Dynas were just ahead of the Sportsters in sales.

If Harley really thinks they can win in the long term by shuffling wheels, tanks, forks, and other parts bin bits around, good luck to them. They can't; even BMW figured out that air/oil cooled Boxters needed an update.

[Buzglyd]

Originally Posted by The Spaceman

Demographic trends are a little longer-term than a few years, Buzz. Harley themselves say their core market of "Baby Boomers" is going away and they have to address it.

When I worked for HD, Sportsters were a small fraction of sales, and were low-margin bikes. HD has made their money in the past few decades with big-twins; Road Kings, Ultras, and variations on the Softail line. The Dynas were just ahead of the Sportsters in sales.

If Harley really thinks they can win in the long term by shuffling wheels, tanks, forks, and other parts bin bits around, good luck to them. They can't; even BMW figured out that air/oil cooled Boxters needed an update.

The boxers are just adding liquid cooling. You think that's going change the demos?

People have been making your same argument for decades now and they're always wrong.

Sportys are hot right now. 600cc sportbikes are dead. Those Sporty buyers are likely to move up to a big twin once they get a little fatter and crush their toes riding in Chuck Taylors.

Now go find another tired article from 3 years ago and tell me I'm wrong.

[schizuki]

Originally Posted by The Spaceman

Yeah..what a dumbass that guy is. Reading all those "facts" and "figures," and drawing "conclusions" from them.

I'm glad I'm stoopid too.

Demographic Headwinds Hitting Harley-Davidson - Seeking Alpha

From your link:

"The average age of a Harley buyer is now about 47"

Ken, would you care to guess the average age of motorcyclists in general?

"In response to the J.D. Power and Associates 2010 U.S. Motorcycle Competitive Information Study, which reveals that the average rider age has increased from 40 in 2001 to 49 in 2010..."

Having facts is great. Having more is better. And analyzing them correctly is the important part.

[Buzglyd]

Originally Posted by schizuki

From your link:

"The average age of a Harley buyer is now about 47"

Ken, would you care to guess the average age of motorcyclists in general?

"In response to the J.D. Power and Associates 2010 U.S. Motorcycle Competitive Information Study, which reveals that the average rider age has increased from 40 in 2001 to 49 in 2010..."

Having facts is great. Having more is better. And analyzing them correctly is the important part.

Well in Kmo's world you start with the narrative and work backwards from there. If a three year-old "analysis" works (even though it has turned out to be totally untrue) you run with it!

H-D should be building 600cc sportbikes! They're selling like hotcakes! (kinda)

[schizuki]

Originally Posted by Buzglyd

H-D should be building 600cc sportbikes! They're selling like hotcakes! (kinda)

The simple fact is that Boomers are the largest consumer cohort, and they're between 47 and 67 years old. So yeah, the rider demo should skew higher. And it does so for all the manufacturers. It's not a Harley problem. To quote Harley numbers, and draw conclusions from that about Harley, without looking at the other manufacturers' demos makes no sense.

[schizuki]

And let's take it one more step. Say that Harley sales slow as Boomer generation riders die off. Their demo will begin to skew younger. So according to Ken's logic, Harley will be headed in the right direction.

[seruzawa]

Originally Posted by schizuki

The simple fact is that Boomers are the largest consumer cohort, and they're between 47 and 67 years old. So yeah, the rider demo should skew higher. And it does so for all the manufacturers. It's not a Harley problem. To quote Harley numbers, and draw conclusions from that about Harley, without looking at the other manufacturers' demos makes no sense.

There is another generation on the way, maybe not as big as the boomers, but the idea that we have a dwindling population is just plain bogus.

[sarnali2]

Well I still like the the 70's look Sporty, plus you don't have to worry about getting your bell bottoms stuck on the kickstarter and doing a face plant in front of the town Heat when you're drunk as sh*t like me and Dr Seruzawa did. A big plus for todays enlightened youth.....

[Buzglyd]

Originally Posted by sarnali2

Well I still like the the 70's look Sporty, plus you don't have to worry about getting your bell bottoms stuck on the kickstarter and doing a face plant in front of the town Heat when you're drunk as sh*t like me and Dr Seruzawa did. A big plus for todays enlightened youth.....

Getting your shoelace stuck on the shift lever can cause equal embarrassment.