Go Back   Motorcycle Forum > Motorcycle.Com General Discussion > Motorcycle General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-04-2012, 07:01 AM   #11
Buzglyd
Founding Member
 
Buzglyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,904
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Spaceman View Post
Yeah..what a dumbass that guy is. Reading all those "facts" and "figures," and drawing "conclusions" from them.

I'm glad I'm stoopid too.

Demographic Headwinds Hitting Harley-Davidson - Seeking Alpha
That article is three years old Kenneth.

If Harley's aging buyers are hurting sales, then what's The Big Four's excuse?

600 sport bike sales are in the toilet.
Buzglyd is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links Remove Advertisements
Motorcycle Forum
Advertisement
Old 02-04-2012, 10:39 AM   #12
The Spaceman
Registered Member
 
The Spaceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,448
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzglyd View Post
That article is three years old Kenneth.

If Harley's aging buyers are hurting sales, then what's The Big Four's excuse?

600 sport bike sales are in the toilet.
Demographic trends are a little longer-term than a few years, Buzz. Harley themselves say their core market of "Baby Boomers" is going away and they have to address it.

When I worked for HD, Sportsters were a small fraction of sales, and were low-margin bikes. HD has made their money in the past few decades with big-twins; Road Kings, Ultras, and variations on the Softail line. The Dynas were just ahead of the Sportsters in sales.

If Harley really thinks they can win in the long term by shuffling wheels, tanks, forks, and other parts bin bits around, good luck to them. They can't; even BMW figured out that air/oil cooled Boxters needed an update.
__________________
318 curves in 11 miles."
The Spaceman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2012, 01:27 PM   #13
Buzglyd
Founding Member
 
Buzglyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,904
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Spaceman View Post
Demographic trends are a little longer-term than a few years, Buzz. Harley themselves say their core market of "Baby Boomers" is going away and they have to address it.

When I worked for HD, Sportsters were a small fraction of sales, and were low-margin bikes. HD has made their money in the past few decades with big-twins; Road Kings, Ultras, and variations on the Softail line. The Dynas were just ahead of the Sportsters in sales.

If Harley really thinks they can win in the long term by shuffling wheels, tanks, forks, and other parts bin bits around, good luck to them. They can't; even BMW figured out that air/oil cooled Boxters needed an update.
The boxers are just adding liquid cooling. You think that's going change the demos?

People have been making your same argument for decades now and they're always wrong.

Sportys are hot right now. 600cc sportbikes are dead. Those Sporty buyers are likely to move up to a big twin once they get a little fatter and crush their toes riding in Chuck Taylors.

Now go find another tired article from 3 years ago and tell me I'm wrong.
Buzglyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2012, 02:47 PM   #14
schizuki
Founding Member
 
schizuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,030
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Spaceman View Post
Yeah..what a dumbass that guy is. Reading all those "facts" and "figures," and drawing "conclusions" from them.

I'm glad I'm stoopid too.

Demographic Headwinds Hitting Harley-Davidson - Seeking Alpha
From your link:

"The average age of a Harley buyer is now about 47"

Ken, would you care to guess the average age of motorcyclists in general?

"In response to the J.D. Power and Associates 2010 U.S. Motorcycle Competitive Information Study, which reveals that the average rider age has increased from 40 in 2001 to 49 in 2010..."

Having facts is great. Having more is better. And analyzing them correctly is the important part.
__________________
Reverēre meam auctōritātem

Bill Clinton and Chuck Schumer are praising the Supreme Court for overturning an anti-gay-marriage law that they both signed.
schizuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2012, 03:25 PM   #15
Buzglyd
Founding Member
 
Buzglyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,904
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schizuki View Post
From your link:

"The average age of a Harley buyer is now about 47"

Ken, would you care to guess the average age of motorcyclists in general?

"In response to the J.D. Power and Associates 2010 U.S. Motorcycle Competitive Information Study, which reveals that the average rider age has increased from 40 in 2001 to 49 in 2010..."

Having facts is great. Having more is better. And analyzing them correctly is the important part.
Well in Kmo's world you start with the narrative and work backwards from there. If a three year-old "analysis" works (even though it has turned out to be totally untrue) you run with it!

H-D should be building 600cc sportbikes! They're selling like hotcakes! (kinda)
Buzglyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2012, 04:49 PM   #16
schizuki
Founding Member
 
schizuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,030
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzglyd View Post
H-D should be building 600cc sportbikes! They're selling like hotcakes! (kinda)
The simple fact is that Boomers are the largest consumer cohort, and they're between 47 and 67 years old. So yeah, the rider demo should skew higher. And it does so for all the manufacturers. It's not a Harley problem. To quote Harley numbers, and draw conclusions from that about Harley, without looking at the other manufacturers' demos makes no sense.
__________________
Reverēre meam auctōritātem

Bill Clinton and Chuck Schumer are praising the Supreme Court for overturning an anti-gay-marriage law that they both signed.
schizuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2012, 04:54 PM   #17
schizuki
Founding Member
 
schizuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,030
Default

And let's take it one more step. Say that Harley sales slow as Boomer generation riders die off. Their demo will begin to skew younger. So according to Ken's logic, Harley will be headed in the right direction.
__________________
Reverēre meam auctōritātem

Bill Clinton and Chuck Schumer are praising the Supreme Court for overturning an anti-gay-marriage law that they both signed.
schizuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2012, 06:11 PM   #18
seruzawa
The Toad

 
seruzawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: 8501 ft.
Posts: 17,461
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schizuki View Post
The simple fact is that Boomers are the largest consumer cohort, and they're between 47 and 67 years old. So yeah, the rider demo should skew higher. And it does so for all the manufacturers. It's not a Harley problem. To quote Harley numbers, and draw conclusions from that about Harley, without looking at the other manufacturers' demos makes no sense.
There is another generation on the way, maybe not as big as the boomers, but the idea that we have a dwindling population is just plain bogus.
__________________
"Make no mistake, Communism lost a big argument - one we know today as the 20th century."
seruzawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2012, 08:22 PM   #19
sarnali2
Aging Cafe` Racer

 
sarnali2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sittin' down by my window, lookin' at the rain.
Posts: 8,719
Default

Well I still like the the 70's look Sporty, plus you don't have to worry about getting your bell bottoms stuck on the kickstarter and doing a face plant in front of the town Heat when you're drunk as sh*t like me and Dr Seruzawa did. A big plus for todays enlightened youth.....
__________________
"Carpe` Throttelum -Loud Suits Save Lives"

"He said he's farting because of his medication"...
sarnali2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2012, 09:55 PM   #20
Buzglyd
Founding Member
 
Buzglyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,904
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarnali2 View Post
Well I still like the the 70's look Sporty, plus you don't have to worry about getting your bell bottoms stuck on the kickstarter and doing a face plant in front of the town Heat when you're drunk as sh*t like me and Dr Seruzawa did. A big plus for todays enlightened youth.....
Getting your shoelace stuck on the shift lever can cause equal embarrassment.
Buzglyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off