Italian V-Four Literbike Shootout: Aprilia RSV4 Factory vs. Ducati Desmosedici

[Kevin_Duke]

Originally Posted by cloud9

Not a total waste. Less weight and arguably better sound.

I'm sure some answer will surface for the loss of power.

Also the dyno results don't tell the whole story I'm sure.

Yep, Mr. Ko says it's difficult to use all the power it has, especially on the street, and he's happy with what he says is a 13-lb weight loss. Plus, it sounds super cool and is a nice piece of moto jewelry!

[notabiker]

people that own those bikes want things to cost a lot. the more it costs the better. it makes them feel good.

[The_AirHawk]

Originally Posted by notabiker

people that own those bikes want things to cost a lot. the more it costs the better. it makes them feel good.

Maybe. But I don't think Ko cares. Neither do I - it's his money, and I'm not gonna tell him what to do with it, nor pass judgement on what he has done with it.

[seruzawa]

Well the Duck may lack a little torque but that 75lb weight saving (17% less than the Aprilia) in real world terms gives you an effective 17% boost in power and torque and virtually always a lighter bike is better handling.

[Buzglyd]

Originally Posted by notabiker

people that own those bikes want things to cost a lot. the more it costs the better. it makes them feel good.

People like to bytch and put other people down.

It makes them feel good.

[Dr_Sprocket]

Originally Posted by Buzglyd

People like to bytch and put other people down.

It makes them feel good.

Yeah! Like this one time... when we made fun of BMW owners...

[mlynch001]

Quoting MC.com

"Our test unit was equipped with the race ECU and exhaust system included with each Desmosedici, a no-brainer swap for the standard street exhaust. So equipped, it is said to achieve the magic 200-horsepower mark at 13,800 rpm when measured at the crankshaft. As for rear-wheel power numbers, those who have had it on a Dynojet dyno say it’s pushing nearly 180 hp. Peak crankshaft torque of 85.3 ft-lbs arrives way up at 10,500 rpm."

REALLY!!! MY GOD! To where did that 20-40 horsepower and nearly 20lb/ft of torque vanish on Ko's Bike? I would bet $100 of my hard earned Money that the Supplied ECM IS NOT equal to the true "Race" ECM. Or, worse yet, the engine has been "de-tuned" with different cams to reduce power to more manageable levels for "mere mortals"! The NEW Horsepower (159 @ 13800) and Torque (67lb/ft @ 10900) numbers are pathetic! If I were Ko, I would ask, No I would DEMAND a REAL "Race" ECM or rollback of whatever "Tuning changes" were made. Ko cannot be satisfied with these Power and Torque numbers! Your Horsepower numbers do not make any sense when you compare the two articles! A 20-40 horsepower loss is unbelievable! If I had paid $75K for this bike I would DEMAND 180-200 horsepower to be GUARANTEED!

BTW "forged, one piece crankshafts" are nothing new (EVERYONE uses "Forged, One piece crankshafts") ! TI Rods are nothing new, and not at all unexpected in bikes of this caliber (Can you say HONDA RC-30?)! Sand cast heads and cases are nothing new and is almost "standard practice" in "Low Volume Production"! "Sand Cast" parts scream "hand built" special, low volume parts (like the first few HONDA CB750K0 models with "Sand cast" cases)!

How are they justifying $11K for that crankshaft? And $18K for TWO WHEELS! Come on! That is absurd! Especially when you can buy HAND BUILT Carbon Fiber wheels for less than $10K! There IS no justification for half a dozen pieces costing more than the whole bike! Sounds more like they have owners bent over and they are going to make the most of the opportunity! More likely, they do not ever intend to sell ANY of these parts!

This a WAY COOL Bike! I am VERY envious of KO!

[Kevin_Duke]

Originally Posted by notabiker

people that own those bikes want things to cost a lot. the more it costs the better. it makes them feel good.

Sorry, not Mr. Ko. He's had his share of lean years, so he's not like what you describe. Always a keen motorcycle enthusiast, he now can afford to indulge in things he's interested in.

[chinawheels]

Originally Posted by Kevin_Duke

Yep, Mr. Ko says it's difficult to use all the power it has, especially on the street, and he's happy with what he says is a 13-lb weight loss. Plus, it sounds super cool and is a nice piece of moto jewelry!

Well, the article didn't cover much riding impression as much as it did on horse power comparison, which that never was my intention installing forge magnesium wheels, Titanium exhaust and few other light weight components.

In any event, once we found the dyno numbers were in questions on my RSV4 Factory, we contacted Piaggio Group, and they were very helpful by taking my bike to their local technical center, and ran 30 different dyno runs using 12 or 15 different available maps, eventually they found a map provided 156 hp at the rear wheel, unfortunately motorcycle.com had already published their article. Piaggio Group provided a copy of the dyno runs on my bike.

I believe my Desmosedici low hp rating encountered the same problem, it required a fine tune/adjustment. Because my buddy had his remap at dyno got 164 HP at the rear wheel whereas mine is @ 159. Then, my other buddy with a Desmosedici sent his ECU to Italy for a remap, also raise the rev limiter to 15,000, his bike receive 172 HP @ rear wheel. So, I need to get mine to a dyno for a fine tune, perhaps I can get few more HP back??

Conclusion, if you buy a chip or install a "Race" map, there is no guarantee the change actually benefited hp gain or just smooth out the power band, or worst. because no two engines perform the same.

The changes I made were for quicker handling, better grip and acceleration ie, lighter wheels, smaller chain, lighter sprockets, full titanium exhaust, softest DOT approved race tires and one tooth less countershaft sprocket, these changes I made had transformed the two bikes in the handling department successfully.

My point is, if I was going after HP (Which one shouldn't because liter bikes nowadays are faster than I or you can use on the street.) I would had built my engine and map it accordingly.

Mr. Duke, as you know I am heavily involve in motorsports both auto and motorcycle last 36 years and still. I do know a few things about performance. Our BMW Superbike team still struggling to win a race, but I can assure you horse power isn't our problem!!!

[Kevin_Duke]

Originally Posted by chinawheels

Well, the article didn't cover much riding impression as much as it did on horse power comparison, which that never was my intention installing forge magnesium wheels, Titanium exhaust and few other light weight components.

In any event, once we found the dyno numbers were in questions on my RSV4 Factory, we contacted Piaggio Group, and they were very helpful by taking my bike to their local technical center, and ran 30 different dyno runs using 12 or 15 different available maps, eventually they found a map provided 156 hp at the rear wheel, unfortunately motorcycle.com had already published their article. Piaggio Group provided a copy of the dyno runs on my bike.

I believe my Desmosedici low hp rating encountered the same problem, it required a fine tune/adjustment. Because my buddy had his remap at dyno got 164 HP at the rear wheel whereas mine is @ 159. Then, my other buddy with a Desmosedici sent his ECU to Italy for a remap, also raise the rev limiter to 15,000, his bike receive 172 HP @ rear wheel. So, I need to get mine to a dyno for a fine tune, perhaps I can get few more HP back??

Conclusion, if you buy a chip or install a "Race" map, there is no guarantee the change actually benefited hp gain or just smooth out the power band, or worst. because no two engines perform the same.

The changes I made were for quicker handling, better grip and acceleration ie, lighter wheels, smaller chain, lighter sprockets, full titanium exhaust, softest DOT approved race tires and one tooth less countershaft sprocket, these changes I made had transformed the two bikes in the handling department successfully.

My point is, if I was going after HP (Which one shouldn't because liter bikes nowadays are faster than I or you can use on the street.) I would had built my engine and map it accordingly.

Mr. Duke, as you know I am heavily involve in motorsports both auto and motorcycle last 36 years and still. I do know a few things about performance. Our BMW Superbike team still struggling to win a race, but I can assure you horse power isn't our problem!!!

Welcome to the forum, Kaming! Anyone who bags on your or your bikes hasn't met you or ridden them! Your Desmo is the most exciting sportbike I've ever ridden. The 17-inch BSTs and new shock spring totally transformed its handling from an uncooperative scary beast to a scary beast!