2011 Gentlemen Sportbike Shootout

[Kevin_Duke]

Originally Posted by Duken4evr

Agree Kevin! The FZ1 motor is a little changed '04 - '06 R1 motor with some really bad exhaust plumbing. Drop an R1 head gasket in it and it lifts the whole curve another 3hp or so. That is too much work for me though.

The Ninja has other attributes that are attractive. Factory luggage options, the adjustable windshield. If buying today it would be a really hard choice. The Ninja did not exist back in '06 when I bought my bike. At the time, compared to that era Bandit and the 919 that were the only other bikes I was considering and for the discounted price the dealer let the FZ1 go for, it was a no brainer!

By the way, Ivan's $195 "Fuel Cut Eliminator" banishes all throttle response harshness from the FZ1. It is a must have, especially on the earlier models. The old girl needs a little help, but she shines when all dolled up

Sure seems like Yamaha left a lot on the table with its stock FZ. BTW, page 1 of our shootout now has a hp dyno chart.

[Dr_Sprocket]

Originally Posted by Duken4evr

Agree Kevin! The FZ1 motor is a little changed '04 - '06 R1 motor with some really bad exhaust plumbing. Drop an R1 head gasket in it and it lifts the whole curve another 3hp or so. That is too much work for me though.

The Ninja has other attributes that are attractive. Factory luggage options, the adjustable windshield. If buying today it would be a really hard choice. The Ninja did not exist back in '06 when I bought my bike. At the time, compared to that era Bandit and the 919 that were the only other bikes I was considering and for the discounted price the dealer let the FZ1 go for, it was a no brainer!

By the way, Ivan's $195 "Fuel Cut Eliminator" banishes all throttle response harshness from the FZ1. It is a must have, especially on the earlier models. The old girl needs a little help, but she shines when all dolled up

Nice gains on the top end. However... your improvements still support the main complaint in the article. The authors assert that in order to tap into all that FZ-1 power, one needs to rev it to the limit. Your modifications seem to have increased top-end power, but seem to do little to improve the midrange. Thoughts?

[eurban]

A fully "Ivanized" GenII FZ1 is making about 100 rwhp at 7K. That's 20-25hp more than stock (Yamaha has seemingly improved the base mapping over the years) and about 10hp more than the latest Ninja. I would say that that is a pretty significant midrange improvement, wouldn't you?. Gains actually begin a good bit lower. Here's one of Ivan's charts from his testing of the Yosh R77 system. In addition to the Yosh, the mods include: PowerComanderIII, Ignition Module, Ivans secondary throttle butterflies, FCE, aftermarket airfilter, airbox modifcation. I think that Ivan has improved the mapping from the time of this chart with his current "Emap"

Consider that a used GenII FZ1 can be purchased for under $4k in today's market (I paid $3400 for my 06 with 12K miles last summer). Sprinkle on an equal amount of $ for upgrades both to the engine as well as suspension, brakes, comfort and utility and you will have something that these new bikes will have a tough time matching while costing $2k+ more. It really is a remarkable transformation.

[trenttheuncatchable]

Originally Posted by eurban

(I paid $3400 for my 06 with 12K miles last summer).

Wow, did you get a nice deal on that one!

[Duken4evr]

Used Gen II FZ1s are dirt cheap. That $3,400 to 4 grand is about the going rate for a stock '06 in good shape. I will never sell mine as a result - not worth it! I bought mine new for 8.4K out the door, a nice discount off MSRP at the time. Those kinds of deals are still out there.

Originally Posted by Dr_Sprocket

Nice gains on the top end. However... your improvements still support the main complaint in the article. The authors assert that in order to tap into all that FZ-1 power, one needs to rev it to the limit. Your modifications seem to have increased top-end power, but seem to do little to improve the midrange. Thoughts?

As shown by Ivan's charts, the mods make the FZ1 about even with the Ninja through the midrange and it is stronger up top. Replace the too tall stock 17T front sprocket (stock gearing has first hitting the limiter well over 80 mph) with a 16T and it is good to go. Even here in thin air land Denver, my warmed over FZ1 surges ahead very strongly from 5,000 rpm on, stepping up hard at 8K all the way past 12,000. It is one sweet no screwing around not dumbed down or tuned for torque heart attack serious liter class powerband.

The thing the dyno can't show is engine character. The FZ1 becomes very crisp and responsive to small throttle inputs and positively turbine like, rev hungry and eerily vibrationless when it is fed a proper fuel mixture and allowed to breathe. It pulls much better through the middle post mods, but it is an R1 at heart - with the same yawning 46mm throttle body size as the 04 to 06 R1, it loves to rev and rev hard. I love it for that!

So many things working against the FZ in stock form. It is like Yamaha purposely screwed it up. To their credit, Kawasaki obviously paid attention and did it right, directly out of the box, EPA legal and all. Kudos to big K for that! The Ninja does not "transform" in the engine bay as much as the Yamaha as Kawasaki got their bike right to begin with. If the buyer intends to never modify their motorcycle at all, the Ninja is a complete no brainer over the FZ1, no contest.

I do love this category of motorcycles. They are very sporting, yet promise long and enjoyable hours of corner chasing in relative comfort. Their big engines are not diminished by altitude, big hills or stiff headwinds. Their chassis are sharp enough to be fun at elevated speeds in the canyons and fast open sweepers. They are perfect 400 mile day trip Colorado mountain bikes. These mountains eat horsepower and make 600cc sport bikes feel like wind up toys. It is best to bring some fat mid and top end power when heading out into these parts, and when the roads and the scenery are so damn awesome that you just don't want to stop, it is best if the bike is comfortable too. A pic of bike, basking in the open spaces



PS - Ivan owns an FZ1 (he owned a 1st Gen model too) and he has spent a lot of time developing it as a result. He does know his stuff.

[andyhe]

Good article. I'm a honda fan and it's disappointing that they won't bring the CBF1000 into the states. The VFR 1200 isn't nearly as comfortable and way too overpriced. The ST1300 is more of a touring bike (except for lack of a sixth gear) and is too big and ponderous in my opinion. I'm looking to upgrade from my 650 nighthawk (yeah, an old bike). The crossrunner doesn't do anything for me. Sigh. Looks like I need to go take a closer look at the Ninja 1000, just wish it had ABS. Just wish Honda would bring the CBF1000 down from Canada.

[cloud9]

This Ivan guy really seems to know what he's doing, and he's not to far from where I live.

That scenery is phenomenal duken, post more if you have some.

[Norman53]

[quote=Administrator;259106]Original Article:
Why is the Honda CBF1000 not included in this and all the other comparisons. It is a contender, if not the outright winner.
Norm

[Kevin_Duke]

[quote=Norman53;259301]

Originally Posted by Administrator

Original Article:
Why is the Honda CBF1000 not included in this and all the other comparisons. It is a contender, if not the outright winner.
Norm

Because American Honda hasn't yet made a business case for bringing the F to our shores. Maybe next year...

[eurban]

[quote=Norman53;259301]

Originally Posted by Administrator

Original Article:
Why is the Honda CBF1000 not included in this and all the other comparisons. It is a contender, if not the outright winner.
Norm

540lbs wet and 106 CRANK hp. Undoubtedly it has its virtues like the Suzuki but I don't think they would be enough to outshine the others in this comparison.