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Old 02-12-2011, 09:27 PM   #11
The_AirHawk
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Originally Posted by Dr_Sprocket View Post
Your ideal bike: 2001 Honda CB600F4i.
Y'know, I STILL don't get the impression that the "older" Supersports are "slower" than today's crop of 6/10-liter motos - slower maybe at the track; in the hands of Rossi or DuHamel or one of the Haydn bros.......

It's splitting hairs. Fine ones.

3-seconds slower around Road America is a lifetime in Racing.

Nothing, out here in the "Real World".

If anything, in some ways the older bikes are worse in my opinion: Fuel Injection, throttle-by-wire, and traction-aids in software and slipper-clutches have somewhat smoothed-out the "harshness" of the high-RPM hammerblow of horsepower that was a veritible hallmark of the 600cc class. It's still there to some extent - just not the near-instant beatdown to the hamfisted and unaware/unprepared newbie that it once was.
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Old 02-13-2011, 08:00 AM   #12
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I guess it is time to sto lurking and throw in on this one.

With about fifty years on two wheels and around fifty scooters behind me age brings the wisdom of moderation. That said a decade plus of short track and half mile leave me no stranger to grabing a handfull of horsepower and pitching it sideways.

I still feel the wide-eyed rush, and yes a bit of fear, when as an experianced racer back in the seventies a friend sent me out on his road racer. Things happen real fast with horsepower not always in the best interest of your longevity.

With likely miles ridden in the countless area many on very exciting machines I would encourage you to start with less power, learn to use the art of proper technique to control the machine. An accomplished rider on a slower but better ridden bike is a good thing.

And from years of dragging race cars around Iowa, don't hit livestock crossing the road. It really hurts!
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Old 02-13-2011, 02:17 PM   #13
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OK Kent- You've got many years but on the recent model you have only 5000 miles. So, WHY spend $15k on an exotic bike you will only average 3k a year on? Why not save all that money and buy a two year old Yamaha FZ1 with the lower fairing kits. All day riding comfort, mostly sportbike handling & breaking and most likely sub $500 annual in insurance all for a sub $8k investment. Or bigger savings by picking up a 5 yo Suzuki SV1000S with lower fairing kit for aroung $5K or less.
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Old 02-13-2011, 04:43 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Dr_Sprocket View Post
5200 miles / 5 years = 1000 miles/year. At 40 mph average speed (in town and highway averaged), that's only 25 hours per year. Since your riding is limited to the warmer months (3 summer months), it would not be likely that you'd be able to maintain your skills year 'round. Given that, your first 15-20 hours every year can be attributed to relearning your basic skills. So... all totaled, you have 25 hours of moderate riding experience on a 50 hp, 500cc bike... over 5 years!!!

The math proves you simply do not have enough experience to buy a litre bike. Best I can offer is a ten-year old 600cc. Sorry.

Your ideal bike: 2001 Honda CB600F4i.
I really do appreciate all the input, but I absolutely must respectfully disagree with your assessment. There are several assumptions you made that are flat out wrong, and matters that aren't mathematical or factual, but based solely in opinion.

1.) 4 of those 5 years were in college. I didn't do a lot of riding during those years, as I really didn't need to. I'm originally from a city a mere half hour from where I was going to college, so even when I went home for a weekend or holiday, it wasn't a long trip. I'm now out of college and taking substantially longer trips to and from work and around town.

2.) A 3 month riding season? Even for Iowa, that's absurd. I was on the bike today (February 13th) and I can generally ride at the very least into September, but I believe last fall I was on it until the end of October. Hardly a 3 month season.

3.) Relearning basic skills? I'm not sure I understand. I've never had issues in the spring. I get it started, I hop on, and I'm off. Other than my second season riding, I can't recall ever having any issues when getting back on a bike.

4.) You're implying that math is what proves experience? So we should expect a bunch of 85 year old men to be the best drivers out there? I'm not sure what old people drive like where you're from, but they sure can't drive for **** here.

Sorry if this came across as snippy or agitated. I really just felt I wasn't getting a fair look here. If I weren't confident in my ability to handle the bike, I wouldn't be looking. I was mostly looking for bike-specific advice or anecdotal insight, and it bothers me to think it's become a personal judgement of my ability (or lack thereof) by people who have never met me. I'm not going to be doing 180 downtown, or anywhere for that matter. I'm buying a bike that I think looks nice, I can be comfortable on for relatively short trips, and has the power I want should I ever want it or need it.

Numbers don't tell you the whole story. This, coming from an engineer, should say something.

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Old 02-13-2011, 05:06 PM   #15
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I really do appreciate all the input, but I absolutely must respectfully disagree with your assessment. There are several assumptions you made that are flat out wrong, and matters that aren't mathematical or factual, but based solely in opinion.

1.) 4 of those 5 years were in college. I didn't do a lot of riding during those years, as I really didn't need to. I'm originally from a city a mere half hour from where I was going to college, so even when I went home for a weekend or holiday, it wasn't a long trip. I'm not out of college and taking substantially longer trips to and from work and around town.

2.) A 3 month riding season? Even for Iowa, that's absurd. I was on the bike today (February 13th) and I can generally ride at the very least into September, but I believe last fall I was on it until the end of October. Hardly a 3 month season.

3.) Relearning basic skills? I'm not sure I understand. I've never had issues in the spring. I get it started, I hop on, and I'm off. Other than my second season riding, I can't recall ever having any issues when getting back on a bike.

4.) You're implying that math is what proves experience? So we should expect a bunch of 85 year old men to be the best drivers out there? I'm not sure what old people drive like where you're from, but they sure can't drive for **** here.

Sorry if this came across as snippy or agitated. I really just felt I wasn't getting a fair look here. If I weren't confident in my ability to handle the bike, I wouldn't be looking. I was mostly looking for bike-specific advice or anecdotal insight, and it bothers me to think it's become a personal judgement of my ability (or lack thereof) by people who have never met me. I'm not going to be doing 180 downtown, or anywhere for that matter. I'm buying a bike that I think looks nice, I can be comfortable on for relatively short trips, and has the power I want should I ever want it or need it.

Numbers don't tell you the whole story. This, coming from an engineer, should say something.
For an engineer, you sure don't pay close attention to detail. Please read the subject line -- note the smiley used, indicating intended sarcasm and humor. Now, reread and find the humor, as intended. You're welcome!

FWIW, there are MANY inexperienced riders who think they have the experience and skills to handle a litre bike. Many have not met with the same success you anticipate for yourself. If you think you are ready for a litre bike, then by all means, go for it! What does our opinion matter anyway? Don't forget, you asked for it.

That's all for now. Happy shopping!
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Old 02-13-2011, 06:04 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Dr_Sprocket View Post
For an engineer, you sure don't pay close attention to detail. Please read the subject line -- note the smiley used, indicating intended sarcasm and humor. Now, reread and find the humor, as intended. You're welcome!

FWIW, there are MANY inexperienced riders who think they have the experience and skills to handle a litre bike. Many have not met with the same success you anticipate for yourself. If you think you are ready for a litre bike, then by all means, go for it! What does our opinion matter anyway? Don't forget, you asked for it.

That's all for now. Happy shopping!
If you were intending sarcasm there, I apologize. I'm still unsure how a 'Very Happy' face implies sarcasm (especially when a face exists that specifically says 'Sarcasm'), but if it's what you intended, so be it. I would certainly agree with you, then, you can't apply some mathematical formula to determine if someone is or isn't capable of a riding a certain class of bike.

I'm aware there are a great deal of people who believe they are experienced or mature enough to handle a literbike. But, what qualified me to start with a brand new Ninja 500 as my first bike? I'd never even ridden a motorcycle before. Many would have probably said that was too much to start with.

I think you may have misinterpreted what I was asking for. I was mostly looking for sources of information to compare the 2011 bikes in the literbike class. Most of the reviews are based on track performance, but there's nothing for a simple enthusiast. I thought this might have been the right place.
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Old 02-13-2011, 06:45 PM   #17
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Usually MO comes out with a litre bike shootout in the spring of every year. They have not done that as yet for the 2011 model year bikes. Below is the link to the 2010 litre bike shootout. Have you seen it already?

MO is very nice in that its reviews for litre bikes and supersport bikes review both street and track riding, with motojournalists ranging from large- to small-framed. Here is the link to last year's edition: British SBK Champ Steve Hislop Dies . (The link is correct. Don't worry about what it says.)

One can only hope the next edition hits the streets soon. Happy riding!
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Old 02-13-2011, 09:36 PM   #18
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The jump from an EX500 to a late model liter class sport bike is a large one. It can be done though I suppose. I went from riding dirt bikes my whole life to a Ninja 750 as my first street bike. It is all in the right wrist. A ZX10 / R1, S1000RR, etc will go as slow or fast as your whim commands. Be honest with yourself and your maturity level. your very life may depend on it. I survived my Ninja years, by the grace of all that off road experience and mostly dumb luck. I did some foolish things on that bike. Ah the memories - LOL.

Power does indeed corrupt and one has to be careful not to get sucked in. The Ninja days are long gone I have ridden on the street for over 25 years and probably 200,000 miles now and my '06 FZ1 still tempts the hell out of me. Sometimes, in the right time and place, I give in and run that thing out hard. I mention this as the "liquid speed" put out by the bikes on your list is a bit like an addictive drug. Few are immune to the siren song and sensations of a strong bike on the cam and running out hard. I am not one of them

If you can swing it, a Ducati 848 would be awesome. Exotic sport bike, and fast twins are really satisfying to ride, even if you are not pushing the limit. Twins have soul and a solid throttle to rear wheel connection that other engine types simply do not have. My last bike was a Suzuki TL1000. Way out of date now, but I really enjoyed the thing. The 848 strikes me as a sweet balance between raw power and handling. They are gems. I did not catch if you are married or not. If you are single, get the Duc. Your social life with the fairer sex will improve greatly...

I would stay away from the BMW S1000RR. Those things are just silly stupid scary unruly fast. As Dirty Harry said "a man has got to know his limitations!"

As for the physical size of the bikes themselves, the liter class supersports are tiny - really not much different in dimension than the 600s. They just have whopping power on tap. The real reason for us mortals to go liter class sport bike is the effortless midrange power. I call it "fast casual" riding - out in the canyons, effortlessly thrusting off corners, rarely if ever breaking into the upper rpms (beyond 8,000 or so on this type of bike).

Good luck with your search!

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Old 02-14-2011, 07:16 AM   #19
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I really do appreciate all the input, but I absolutely must respectfully disagree with your assessment.
And what followed that is a classic example of rationalization and trying to represent a highly personal opinion as fact. Your attitude and opinion are almost universally held be 20-something males with limited riding experience. It's also pretty universal to dismiss the cautions offered by your elders with more sage knowledge and experience.

That comment was NOT meant as an insult but simply a statement of facts.......as I see them; my opinion.

Unless you are in a situation where you get to practice drifting, sliding, emergency braking and veering on a regular basis, meaning several times a month..........those skills become rusty. Whether you believe that or not, it is true.

I highly suspect that you never had good emergency avoidance skills in the first place. How often do you practice emergency manuvers ??

Incidentally, the "riding experts" pretty much echo what we are trying to tell you here too. It gives rise to the assertion that seasonal riders with low mileage really do NOT have "5 years of experience" but one year of experience, 5 times.

I don't expect that any of this will REALLY sink in...........so good luck with your new "big" bike. Keep your Will updated and carry plenty of life and medical insurance.

Those in your situation who don't crash are more of a testiment to luck than skill.
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Old 02-14-2011, 07:20 AM   #20
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Most of the reviews are based on track performance, but there's nothing for a simple enthusiast.
That's because those bikes really ARE track bikes; modified only slightly for street use.

But stand by a few more days. There ARE folks here that can and probably will give you the opinions that you seek........rather than just busting your chops. I quit.
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