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Old 01-30-2011, 03:56 PM   #11
Duken4evr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anrajala View Post
Victory has substantially more power and torq so how could it be possibly lacking engine character compared to HD? Looks, sound, smell, touchy-feely surfaces? Does the color match your handbag? Engine's main purpose is to produce some movimiento for crying out loud.

- cruiz-euro
Yes, the Harley has the characteristic drunk and disorderly 45 degree V-Twin Harley sound. It is cool.

High performance sporting 90 degree V-Twins (Ducati of course) have an awesome deep sound and a very direct/connected throttle to rear tire feel and they are cool - probably the coolest of all in my opinion.

My FZ1 when wound up to 12,000 rpm shrieks like the end of the world is near, makes my hair stand on end and the rear tire all squirrelly. It too is cool.

In all honesty, I would probably hate an electric motorcycle as it has no engine "character". Engines are far more than a means of propulsion. They speak to this rider with their sound and power delivery style.

Make my handbag butch black with sewn on custom flames please

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Old 01-30-2011, 07:13 PM   #12
Dr_Sprocket
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Originally Posted by Duken4evr View Post
The Vic Cross Country splits the difference. More expensive than a Kawasaki, less than a Harley, quite a bit more powerful and better functioning than both, but perhaps lacking some engine character compared to the HD, but it is an American machine.

If buying today, I would buy the Victory hands down. I want to buy American. I really do. If buying a new car or truck, I go Ford all the way. I am proud of Ford. HD just makes it impossible for me to feel that attachment. Victory? Hell ya. I feel it. I likely will buy a bike of this type in about 10 years when I have more of an opportunity to ramble long distances on a bike.
Pretty much sums it up, Duken. My vote is with Victory right now. Their price-to-performance ratio is up there in the cruiser segment.
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Old 01-31-2011, 05:30 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Duken4evr View Post

In all honesty, I would probably hate an electric motorcycle as it has no engine "character". Engines are far more than a means of propulsion. They speak to this rider with their sound and power delivery style.
I'm not so sure about that. People who've ridden high-performance electric bikes say the sound is quite engaging...sort of turbine pitch. As far as power delivery goes, having nearly 100% of torque (and quite a bit of it) sounds pretty entertaining to me.
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Old 01-31-2011, 06:51 AM   #14
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Well, let's arrange a test ride of an electric race bike at the Streets of Willow and I will let you know.

Inquiring minds want to know how good a high perf electric race bike is at wheelies. Seems like it would be. This is critical information you know
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Old 01-31-2011, 10:52 AM   #15
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Back to the Vulcan, it's an erstatz Electra Glide. Makes a real one worth more to people that care. I've broken in E Glides and Heritage Softails, Dynas, etc. for rental places, and the big HD can get it on if you know how to ride it. Just remember, you lean into a corner, not the bike. Kind of like the monkey in a sidehack.
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Old 01-31-2011, 01:06 PM   #16
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Duken4evr like your suggestions and your analysis. I just don't see why HD is not exploiting their exchange rate advantage now. Is is labor costs? or just trying to maintain that HD mystique i.e. being a premium brand name image thing? They could be undercutting all the Japanese brands.
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Old 01-31-2011, 01:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duken4evr View Post
Agree, nicely written objective article about a type of bike that evokes a strong emotional response in it's owners.

Given the state of the US economy, I am a bit baffled how HD can charge 22K for this bike, especially with Victory on the scene. The US dollar is tattered compared to the Yen. Harley could be in the historically unusual position of being a "bargain" compared to the foreign competition. The SG as tested "Power Pak" and all should cost at least 3K less. At 18.5K say, paying a bit extra for the Harley over the Kawasaki is viable. 6K plus more feels like they are ramming it where the sun doesn't shine. No thanks, no sale.

In marketing consumer items, there is a perception that when you pay more, you get more. Even if something is really good, if it is priced too low, consumers perceive it as "cheap" and they buy a more expensive item. You see a lot of this in the grocery store. In most cases, I buy the generic store brand and pocket the savings. That cereal is all made by General Mills anyway. In the SG's case it would seem that when you are buying a Harley you are simply paying more for the "image". All well and good, but 6K plus more, well that is just too much of a reach. Don't care that much about "image".

The Vic Cross Country splits the difference. More expensive than a Kawasaki, less than a Harley, quite a bit more powerful and better functioning than both, but perhaps lacking some engine character compared to the HD, but it is an American machine.

If buying today, I would buy the Victory hands down. I want to buy American. I really do. If buying a new car or truck, I go Ford all the way. I am proud of Ford. HD just makes it impossible for me to feel that attachment. Victory? Hell ya. I feel it. I likely will buy a bike of this type in about 10 years when I have more of an opportunity to ramble long distances on a bike.

I found Victory is using the entire MO comparo between the SG, Vic and Strat on their website. You guys should be flattered The MO writeup is the 3rd link down, on the left.

2010 Victory Motorcycle Community : Community Blogs

Pretty straight up of Victory to do that, because not all is roses with their bike. As a package though, it seems like quite a machine. Also straight up of Victory to acknowledge in their marketing that Harley created this segment.

Oh well. Those are my thoughts. Nice writeup guys. Enjoyed seeing the Rock Store. Used to hang out there from time to time back in the day!
Agreed about the perceived value that a higher mark up on price adds. I often refer to it as "Placebo Value" =)
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Old 01-31-2011, 01:24 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duken4evr View Post
My humble suggestions to Kawasaki:

1} Lose the torpedo tubes on the fairing. It is a bike, not a submarine.

2) Fire whoever named this thing. Lose the "Vulcan" name too. It is just silly.

3) Find another 10 to 15 hp in that more modern engine design. It can't have the character and sound of the Harley, so it needs to significantly out power it to stand apart.

4) Take a cue from Victory. Add inverted forks and a bit more travel to smooth the ride. On an 800 pound blunderbuss of a bike, the more rigid inverted forks add steering precision. They look good too.

Do the above and the "as yet to be renamed Kawasaki Bagger" would be "fixed". As the ever hilarious John Hodgeman on the Daily Show would say "You're Welcome!"
I don't know about the inverted forks but I think Voyager headlights, new tank badges, and pipes/air kit can be had for well under $4500. =)
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Old 01-31-2011, 02:18 PM   #19
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I would buy the Kawi over this particular Harley for the simple reason that it doesn't shake at idle. I don't need a bike that shakes, just like I don't need a pipe (muffler) that's so loud that it annoys the neighbors two blocks down.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:14 AM   #20
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Forgot to add into my dry economic / exchange rate tirade about HD pricing - Harley took a bailout. Victory did not. That fact alone points me strongly to Victory for bikes, and Ford for 4 wheeled conveyances. I believe strongly in rewarding smart businesses.

HD is particularly irksome in this regard. Building Harleys was/is a license to print money and those boneheads in management over there still managed to blow it with their overly agressive financing arm, which would finance bikes to anyone with a pulse.
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