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acecycleins · 11-20-2010, 10:19 AM

Duke- from my position, I believe that Sport-Cruiser fits the bill. For the guys that don't mind the weight increase of a sportbike, but need a change from the "sport" riding position. They had their sites on Sport-tour, but aren't really the bags and windscreen type.
Like the V-Max but with the ability to turn. Remember the ZR1100 or the ZL1000? Those were great in-line bikes that carried several sportbike parts, including the motors, and a riding position that allowed spirited riding.
Think Ducati could accept that category- Sport-cruisers seem like the next step for many companies. Power-cruisers tend to lend themselves to big-torque, but less than stellar handling for a sportbike enthusiast as far as I'm concerned. But this bike seems to want to thrive on the handling. It is fully adjustable, isn't it?

Kevin_Duke · 11-20-2010, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acecycleins

Duke- from my position, I believe that Sport-Cruiser fits the bill. For the guys that don't mind the weight increase of a sportbike, but need a change from the "sport" riding position. They had their sites on Sport-tour, but aren't really the bags and windscreen type.
Like the V-Max but with the ability to turn. Remember the ZR1100 or the ZL1000? Those were great in-line bikes that carried several sportbike parts, including the motors, and a riding position that allowed spirited riding.
Think Ducati could accept that category- Sport-cruisers seem like the next step for many companies. Power-cruisers tend to lend themselves to big-torque, but less than stellar handling for a sportbike enthusiast as far as I'm concerned. But this bike seems to want to thrive on the handling. It is fully adjustable, isn't it?

It's at least fully adjustable on the high-end Carbon version. I think the base model, too, but I'm not 100% on that.

Buzglyd · 11-20-2010, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acecycleins

Duke- from my position, I believe that Sport-Cruiser fits the bill. For the guys that don't mind the weight increase of a sportbike, but need a change from the "sport" riding position. They had their sites on Sport-tour, but aren't really the bags and windscreen type.
Like the V-Max but with the ability to turn. Remember the ZR1100 or the ZL1000? Those were great in-line bikes that carried several sportbike parts, including the motors, and a riding position that allowed spirited riding.
Think Ducati could accept that category- Sport-cruisers seem like the next step for many companies. Power-cruisers tend to lend themselves to big-torque, but less than stellar handling for a sportbike enthusiast as far as I'm concerned. But this bike seems to want to thrive on the handling. It is fully adjustable, isn't it?

Wasn't the Vrod a sport cruiser?

Kevin_Duke · 11-20-2010, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzglyd

Wasn't the Vrod a sport cruiser?

Only if your idea of sport doesn't involving leaning it over in corners...

acecycleins · 11-21-2010, 07:14 AM

Buz- I always thought the v-rod was just another power-cruiser. Duke's right. They don't exactly tip into corners.

Buzglyd · 11-21-2010, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acecycleins

Buz- I always thought the v-rod was just another power-cruiser. Duke's right. They don't exactly tip into corners.

Don't forget the journos clamoured for a sporting Vrod and Harley obliged. It didn't sell.

Kevin_Duke · 11-21-2010, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzglyd

Don't forget the journos clamoured for a sporting Vrod and Harley obliged. It didn't sell.

Oh, sure, blame us journos for wanting a bike that handled! If only Erik had gotten his way with that motor...

Duken4evr · 11-21-2010, 04:23 PM

Texas Pacific Group (now TPG Capital) bought 50% of Ducati in 1995 and the rest in 1998, sold Duc in 2005 back to the Italians, no doubt for a fat profit. By the way, TPG was a 780 million dollar company when then did the Duc deal. They are now a 48 billion dollar company. Doing Buell would be a tiny side project for them. TPG, meet Erik Buell...(just a little financial fantasy of mine)

I think Harley made a mistake releasing the V-Rod as a Harley. Better they released it as a Buell and sold it in separate dealerships. The faithful will never buy anything other than something resembling what they ride now. HD has had a stellar run since coming back from the brink in the 80s, but unless they get relevant to the millennial types, they will eventually die with their aging Baby Boomer customer base.

Given their unique situation, I think the way forward for Harley is to diversify their offerings with sub brands that don't "pollute" the HD brand. Keep Harleys true to their heritage, offer other types of bikes under a different "brand". Harley has ham handedly tried this by acquiring MV and with Buell, but they handled it as badly as possible. Just because it did not work does not mean the idea of other types of bikes under different brands is not valid, it has more to do with their execution and timing (in the case of MV) completely sucking.

Duc "gets it". Their products are unique and progressive. I suspect t all goes back to the TPG years. This new cruiser makes sense. No, Duc won't unseat Harley with this bike, but they are positioning themselves for the future, something Harley is not doing.

Very insightful post by Duke about Japan Inc's funk. There are a few cool bikes coming out of Japan, but man can't live on me too cruisers and rice rockets alone. It feels a bit passionless as of late. I do have a fantasy for Japan. It involves bikes like the new Ninja 1000 and of coruse my beloved FZ1, but with no compromise engines, top notch suspension, etc. It also involves direct injected 450cc dual sports with 50hp on tap and real suspension. Basically amped up versions of the bikes currently in my garage (DRZ400, FZ1). Star seems to be doing the best job on the Japanese cruiser front. Cool bikes they are.

YamaCat · 11-21-2010, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duken4evr

Texas Pacific Group (now TPG Capital) bought 50% of Ducati in 1995 and the rest in 1998, sold Duc in 2005 back to the Italians, no doubt for a fat profit. By the way, TPG was a 780 million dollar company when then did the Duc deal. They are now a 48 billion dollar company. Doing Buell would be a tiny side project for them. TPG, meet Erik Buell...(just a little financial fantasy of mine)

Add Indian Motorcycles to that fantasy. And while your at it, tell them to go racing against Harley-Davidson.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duken4evr

I think Harley made a mistake releasing the V-Rod as a Harley. Better they released it as a Buell and sold it in separate dealerships. The faithful will never buy anything other than something resembling what they ride now. HD has had a stellar run since coming back from the brink in the 80s, but unless they get relevant to the millennial types, they will eventually die with their aging Baby Boomer customer base.

HD's stated purpose for the V-Rod was to get market share overseas, which is why the bike is a metric cruiser. In the U.S., HD took roughly 50% of the performance cruiser market share with the V-Rod, the Japanese big four took the rest. Specifically, they were talking about bikes that have good 1/4 mile times and look good doing it. (as opposed to handling) In that one category, the V-Rod wins I guess. The problem is that it's tough to modify a V-Rod and make it faster, although, I think the company has since rolled out lots of screamin' eagle type stuff. Some bikes just don't mod well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duken4evr

Given their unique situation, I think the way forward for Harley is to diversify their offerings with sub brands that don't "pollute" the HD brand. Keep Harleys true to their heritage, offer other types of bikes under a different "brand". Harley has ham handedly tried this by acquiring MV and with Buell, but they handled it as badly as possible. Just because it did not work does not mean the idea of other types of bikes under different brands is not valid, it has more to do with their execution and timing (in the case of MV) completely sucking.

I think they also sunk some money into Moto Guzzi as well. Once they went public and their stock traded well, the next step was to spend that money wisely. Marketing hype worked. Expanding overseas worked. Christ, if Hells Angels can expand all the way to New Zealand, you'd think Harley could make the effort to open up a shop there. So Harley had it goin' on when it came to selling nostalgia.

... and then Harley went racing. That could've gone better than it did.

Ducati, on the other hand, dominated WSBK and people like to think that they are getting a little "chain lightning" from that. So Ducati has it's own image to hype. AND, they have the same marketing dilemma as HD. Nobody is going to want to buy a Ducati that does not perform well. Yet at the same time, they get slammed by jurno's for making an uncomfortable ST4 instead of a Honda Goldwing or a Road King. The ST4 is not uncomfortable, it's just a Ducati with panniers.

There's no doubt but what HD and Ducati both understand their customer bases very well. So I do actually agree with you.

Ducati gets it. And they see a ton of money being spent in the U.S. on "Chris in the Morning" style "Full Hog Dressers" that they can't tap into yet.

What I want to know is:

1. How much will this rather automotive looking Ducati Diavel cost?
2. Is it a limited, limited run, or just the opposite, and ...
3. Did they design it the way they did because they plan on covering it up with saddle bags and a fairing?

Remember ...

... even the V-Rod, "the bike that goes like the space shuttle and handles like one too", wound up with luggage and a windscreen eventually.

Morbo the Destroyer · 11-22-2010, 07:00 AM

One of those bikes you'll have to see to decide. Frankly I think it will tank; the Ducatisti will raise their noses at it, and the price point will be beyond what a cruiser buyer will go for (assuming they ever see one).

At least we know why Hayden is still with Ducati. He looks great in that sweater!

11-20-2010, 10:19 AM	#11
acecycleins Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: North Georgia Posts: 4,129	Duke- from my position, I believe that Sport-Cruiser fits the bill. For the guys that don't mind the weight increase of a sportbike, but need a change from the "sport" riding position. They had their sites on Sport-tour, but aren't really the bags and windscreen type. Like the V-Max but with the ability to turn. Remember the ZR1100 or the ZL1000? Those were great in-line bikes that carried several sportbike parts, including the motors, and a riding position that allowed spirited riding. Think Ducati could accept that category- Sport-cruisers seem like the next step for many companies. Power-cruisers tend to lend themselves to big-torque, but less than stellar handling for a sportbike enthusiast as far as I'm concerned. But this bike seems to want to thrive on the handling. It is fully adjustable, isn't it? __________________ "Slack" - a state of being in which everything flows smoothly.....a frame of mind so at ease that the universe naturally cooperates. Last edited by acecycleins : 11-20-2010 at 10:21 AM.

11-21-2010, 07:14 AM	#15
acecycleins Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: North Georgia Posts: 4,129	Buz- I always thought the v-rod was just another power-cruiser. Duke's right. They don't exactly tip into corners. __________________ "Slack" - a state of being in which everything flows smoothly.....a frame of mind so at ease that the universe naturally cooperates.

11-21-2010, 04:23 PM	#18
Duken4evr Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 705	Texas Pacific Group (now TPG Capital) bought 50% of Ducati in 1995 and the rest in 1998, sold Duc in 2005 back to the Italians, no doubt for a fat profit. By the way, TPG was a 780 million dollar company when then did the Duc deal. They are now a 48 billion dollar company. Doing Buell would be a tiny side project for them. TPG, meet Erik Buell...(just a little financial fantasy of mine) I think Harley made a mistake releasing the V-Rod as a Harley. Better they released it as a Buell and sold it in separate dealerships. The faithful will never buy anything other than something resembling what they ride now. HD has had a stellar run since coming back from the brink in the 80s, but unless they get relevant to the millennial types, they will eventually die with their aging Baby Boomer customer base. Given their unique situation, I think the way forward for Harley is to diversify their offerings with sub brands that don't "pollute" the HD brand. Keep Harleys true to their heritage, offer other types of bikes under a different "brand". Harley has ham handedly tried this by acquiring MV and with Buell, but they handled it as badly as possible. Just because it did not work does not mean the idea of other types of bikes under different brands is not valid, it has more to do with their execution and timing (in the case of MV) completely sucking. Duc "gets it". Their products are unique and progressive. I suspect t all goes back to the TPG years. This new cruiser makes sense. No, Duc won't unseat Harley with this bike, but they are positioning themselves for the future, something Harley is not doing. Very insightful post by Duke about Japan Inc's funk. There are a few cool bikes coming out of Japan, but man can't live on me too cruisers and rice rockets alone. It feels a bit passionless as of late. I do have a fantasy for Japan. It involves bikes like the new Ninja 1000 and of coruse my beloved FZ1, but with no compromise engines, top notch suspension, etc. It also involves direct injected 450cc dual sports with 50hp on tap and real suspension. Basically amped up versions of the bikes currently in my garage (DRZ400, FZ1). Star seems to be doing the best job on the Japanese cruiser front. Cool bikes they are. Last edited by Duken4evr : 11-21-2010 at 04:39 PM.

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11-22-2010, 07:00 AM	#20
Morbo the Destroyer Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,307	One of those bikes you'll have to see to decide. Frankly I think it will tank; the Ducatisti will raise their noses at it, and the price point will be beyond what a cruiser buyer will go for (assuming they ever see one). At least we know why Hayden is still with Ducati. He looks great in that sweater!