2011 Brammo Enertia Plus Preview

[Administrator]

Original Article:
2011 Brammo Enertia Plus Preview

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[schizuki]

Getting closer. It disturbs me that they continue to exaggerate range, however.

I could see owning one of these as a primary commuter bike, with a real bike for fun.

The saddlebags are on backwards, though. That bag in the pic should be turned around and on the other side.

[mscuddy]

Now what do you suppose would happen if somewhere in that gaint frame a small EPA approved two-stroke of about 150cc running a 1500 watt generator at 80% power (which calculates out to about 4 hours run time on one gallon of gas) that could not only keep the batteries up, but also give the rider the choice to bypass the batteries, and run just on the generator-electric motors, with regenerative braking adding to the re-charge cycle?

Well you'd have something that people would actually purchase. Why no hybrid technology for motorcycles? What a strange place we live in....

[Jeff Cobb]

Originally Posted by mscuddy

Now what do you suppose would happen if somewhere in that gaint frame a small EPA approved two-stroke of about 150cc running a 1500 watt generator at 80% power (which calculates out to about 4 hours run time on one gallon of gas) that could not only keep the batteries up, but also give the rider the choice to bypass the batteries, and run just on the generator-electric motors, with regenerative braking adding to the re-charge cycle?

Well you'd have something that people would actually purchase. Why no hybrid technology for motorcycles? What a strange place we live in....

You know on first blush, this sounds reasonable to me. In concept, it could be way more practical for now -- at least until some scientist with a name I can't pronounce and who understands things I can't comprehend comes up with a way to triple or quadruple these batteries, when ever that will be ...

I asked Paolo Timoni about it, and he said "two motors" take too much space, that's why Piaggio is only thinking about the MP3 hybrid, and not a Vespa scooter hybrid, etc. Plus hybrids tend to be expensive -- and then you'll be right back in the category of "niche" all over again.

But you know, if you think you can do it, the world is looking for answers, and venture capital bucks could be available. Seriously -- but you'll have to sell and prove your concept all the way through to the venture capitalists (or your rich uncle), and those people don't want to lose money if they float you $10M to get started ...

[mscuddy]

Jeff, the technology I just outlined has worked now for about sixty years on diesel electric locomotives. Just scale it down some, and bingo, a hybrid motorcycle that gets 200 miles per gallon, and NEVER needs to be re-charged. I was going to make a hybrid wheelchair, but it would have cost around six thousand bucks with all the controllers, oleohydraulic transmissions, brushless DC motors, etc. And the weight factor was another thing that didn't work out.

I don't know what Paolo has been looking at lately, but you can get a brushless direct drive (or one with a gearbox) electric motor the size of a small cantaloupe that puts out four horsepower at 24 volts. I've got two on my Invacare quickie.

So I got a Honda 70 powered wheelchair instead. I hate electric wheelchairs, you run out of juice, and you're stuck. No amount of upper body strength is going to take you anywhere.

I tried to get funding, but got shown the door when I explained it was an application for a wheelchair. Might try again with a motorcycle....

[Jeff Cobb]

Originally Posted by mscuddy

Jeff, the technology I just outlined has worked now for about sixty years on diesel electric locomotives. Just scale it down some, and bingo, a hybrid motorcycle that gets 200 miles per gallon, and NEVER needs to be re-charged. I was going to make a hybrid wheelchair, but it would have cost around six thousand bucks with all the controllers, oleohydraulic transmissions, brushless DC motors, etc. And the weight factor was another thing that didn't work out.

I don't know what Paolo has been looking at lately, but you can get a brushless direct drive (or one with a gearbox) electric motor the size of a small cantaloupe that puts out four horsepower at 24 volts. I've got two on my Invacare quickie.

So I got a Honda 70 powered wheelchair instead. I hate electric wheelchairs, you run out of juice, and you're stuck. No amount of upper body strength is going to take you anywhere.

I tried to get funding, but got shown the door when I explained it was an application for a wheelchair. Might try again with a motorcycle....

Matt, he did not get into specifics. I am not saying it can't be done, I guess you can see that ... And if you feel strongly about it, I'd encourage you to see what you can do. If you don't at first succeed, try, try again. Now is a time for such innovation if the idea is really feasible.

I'd suggest contacting people already involved who have an interest in environmentally friendly transportation -- like the guy I already sent you contact info for a while back. Network, and see who can help and in what capacity. You'll need to get something together, and work out a business plan. I don't know, but it's not just like if you build it, they will come. If it's that good, maybe, but I'd think it will take not a little effort launching an alt-powered U.S.-based PTW company ...

While you're at it, style it cute so women will like it too, and factor in enough reserve juice for electric heated clothes and easy on/off windshields and hand guards for the bulk of people who don't have balmy Januaries ...

[mscuddy]

Thanks Jeff, I'll dig up that email and contact the person, it's real interesting stuff, but it takes cubic dollars to get off the ground. I thought I could get a nice hybrid chair going with surplus used stuff for around fifteen hundred bucks...ha...that was a lowball figure.

I was going to use an electric/hydraulic drivetrain so you could switch over to just the motor powering the hydraulic transmission, and at the same time charging up the batteries.

When you had enough juice in the batteries, you could then switch over to just battery power, and if you wanted to go fast, go up a hill, tow something, etc. combine the motor/generator/batteries/electric motors. Disengage the oleomatic trans. It would give you a lot of options for different situations.

Then of course a tinfoil hat comes into play. Don't want the rooskies stealing any of my secrets....

[Jeff Cobb]

Originally Posted by mscuddy

Thanks Jeff, I'll dig up that email and contact the person, it's real interesting stuff, but it takes cubic dollars to get off the ground. I thought I could get a nice hybrid chair going with surplus used stuff for around fifteen hundred bucks...ha...that was a lowball figure.

I was going to use an electric/hydraulic drivetrain so you could switch over to just the motor powering the hydraulic transmission, and at the same time charging up the batteries.

When you had enough juice in the batteries, you could then switch over to just battery power, and if you wanted to go fast, go up a hill, tow something, etc. combine the motor/generator/batteries/electric motors. Disengage the oleomatic trans. It would give you a lot of options for different situations.

Then of course a tinfoil hat comes into play. Don't want the rooskies stealing any of my secrets....

Sure thing. Gotta watch out for those rooskies!

I would think cubic yards of dollars would be needed to do it first class (which in my view, is the only way to do this right -- that's what Brammo is doing. Everything they source is making them into the Honda/BMW of the e-bike world and I think that's a good way to approach it).

Leydon Energy makes batteries with high energy density, efficient charging and durability properties (click and see who one of its customers is), as does A123 Systems (makes batteries used in the Lightning race bike). For the time being these companies produce among the best (and likely most expensive). How long until their current products are obsolete needs to be factored into the business plan and design of anything you want to make.

You can probably source the petrol stuff quite well on your own, I'm sure. How about Rotax? I don't know ...