2011 Brammo Empulse Preview

[12er]

Originally Posted by The_AirHawk

Yeah, I know. I also noticed that the "Vastly Superior to a Conventional Telescopic Fork" bearing-girder-thingie was Vastly missing, alongside all the other Vastly Superior Motorcycle Technology.

The guy's a Shyster that wishes he was half as clever as John Britten.

There, I've said it.

Either way he's got some cool ideas. Dual counter rotating cranks reminded me of the dual blade copters that dont need a tail rotor.

[Kevin_Duke]

There's a fine line between being a shyster and being a dreamer who enlists others to help achieve his goals...

[Kenneth_Moore]

Originally Posted by Kevin_Duke

There's a fine line between being a shyster and being a dreamer who enlists others to help achieve his goals...

I don't get the hammering of Czysz myself. I've Googled the company a few times and haven't seen any lawsuits or even complaints. He didn't steal anybody's money, they chose to invest it.

It's a shame people tear into a guy like Michael. Here's a guy trying to build a world-competitive Superbike right here in the US. He's put millions of his own money into it. He started in his garage and built the company from there. Now he's opened a factory, hired people, and put his work out for everyone to see. I think he's got vision, skills, and a lot more guts than most of us.

[Duken4evr]

The Czysz fork design makes a lot of sense. Tons of rigidity front to back and less stiff side to side, with far less stiction than a conventional setup, all in a simple package. the fork got some very good reviews from independent magazine test riders when mounted up to an R1 test mule. Actually, it makes more sense to me than BMW's Telelever contraption.

Czysz did put a ton of his own money into his dream and he has some very interesting ideas. I admire him.

[Voyager]

This sounds terrific, but the propensity to exaggerate these things is not lost on me and the 100mph/100 miles may well be possible but is certainly NOT going to happen simultaneously - even with a 10Kwh power pack!

Please Brammo (and journalists) be realistic about these things. I'm sure EV motorcycles can be an important component in any future transport structure but we all need to get used to the fact that we are unlikely to be going as far and as fast as simply as we are currently used to by burning old dinosaurs.

Powered two wheeler's are smaller and lighter than cars and a properly designed and aerodynamic PTW will have significant advantages over larger, heaver battery powered devices. But there are limitations with all electric vehicles that may well require some significant lifestyle changes - but when the alternative is walking down roads that may concentrate the mind wonderfully.

[Voyager]

Originally Posted by Duken4evr

The Czysz fork design makes a lot of sense. Tons of rigidity front to back and less stiff side to side, with far less stiction than a conventional setup, all in a simple package. the fork got some very good reviews from independent magazine test riders when mounted up to an R1 test mule.

Is this still the "tunable post tension trussed design" fork legs of the MotoCzysz? I'm still trying to work out if the post is tunable or is it all tensioned after being made?

This is either techno-mumbo-jumbo or very clever use of materials technology. I really can't tell which.

[Jeff Cobb]

Originally Posted by Voyager

This sounds terrific, but the propensity to exaggerate these things is not lost on me and the 100mph/100 miles may well be possible but is certainly NOT going to happen simultaneously - even with a 10Kwh power pack!

Please Brammo (and journalists) be realistic about these things ...

Please reader, read what this journalist wrote. I quoted someone else, and made no claims for this bike's ability to do 100/100 simultaneously. I expressed twice we are waiting to see what it will do, which is the only intellectually honest response.

We will not say unequivocally either way what it can or cannot do, as you did on the opposite side of the bias coin: RE: "certainly NOT going to happen simultaneously - even with a 10Kwh power pack!"

You may be right, but even Bramscher intimates it won't do 100/100 when he says it could dip to 80 miles range. Further, he did not say that 80 miles was achieved at a sustained 100 mph. So, if the bike was sometimes doing 100 mph, and other times less than 100 mph, when he got the 80 mile range, then one could surmise it would get even less than 80 miles range on a charge at 100 mph sustained.

This will only be known when we get the bike, and you will hear it if this claim is wildly optimistic. Just last week, I called out Brammo because its estimated 40 mile range Enertia left me out of power at 24 miles.

Where I did comment on the Empulse, was that some people have overlooked that we don't measure gasoline bike's ranges at max speed either.

When a literbike comes out and can do 186 mph, do we exclaim: "Surely it is not going to get 43 mpg and do 186 mph!" Not likely. That's understood.

These things were written. But if you still want to suggest that "(journalists) be realistic about these things" then I'll say it again.

My attitude is wait and see.





Excerpts from article -

Bramscher has already made millions in past business ventures and is not known to over-hype his products. Although we have not seen or ridden the Empulse, if what he says is true, it may very well send other aspiring electric sportbike makers back to their CAD programs. ...



If there is any area where hype might be suggested by critics of electric motorcycles, it’s in the area of how far an e-bike can go on a charge.

To be fair, e-bike range estimates are similar to the way estimates are given by manufacturers of gasoline-powered bikes when they claim EPA economy figures based on sedate speeds. For example, a literbike’s mileage isn’t estimated for when it’s traveling 186 mph. In like manner, e-bikes only deliver peak range at speeds well under their maximum.

But to further clarify what is realistic to anticipate from the Empulse, we asked Bramscher to elaborate on its projected travel distance per charge.

“These are average riding ranges under normal use with an average sized rider,” Bramscher said, presumably referring to the Empulse 10.0, “We have seen big swings in range based on conditions, so you might see 80-mile range and you might see 150-mile range, depending on riding.”

However, the Empulse is to be a sportbike. Won’t riders want to ride from home, hit some twisties, and get back? Under a free throttle hand, we asked what can we expect?

“Come see an Empulse race at Laguna Seca to see how far they can go at WOT!” Bramscher said of the Brammo Empulse RR to be raced July 24 in the FIM e-Power competition at the 2010 Red Bull Grand Prix, Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca. “We will do a bunch of rides and record the data and reveal to the public, but this smashes the range anxiety barrier!” ...




Given also that government incentives could salve the sting from the Empulse’s higher-than-gasoline-powered bikes prices – we think it could indeed be “game changing” if it lives up to its billing.

[Voyager]

Originally Posted by Jeff Cobb

Please reader, read what this journalist wrote. I quoted someone else, and made no claims for this bike's ability to do 100/100 simultaneously. I expressed twice we are waiting to see what it will do, which is the only intellectually honest response.

I don't think I said that you claimed that it would do 100/100, did I? However the Brammo video currently on YouTube seems suggest exactly that though..... It's even titled 'Brammo Empulse Electric Motorcycle -100mph/100mile range." 48 seconds in and the voice over says "Capable of 100+ mph with 100+ mile range."

Now I know this is not intended to stand up in court - but I believe that it is intentionally over-hyping the product and will only lead to disappointed customers and give ammunition to those who what to show that electric vehicles are 'not that good'.

Originally Posted by Jeff Cobb

We will not say unequivocally either way what it can or cannot do, as you did on the opposite side of the bias coin: RE: "certainly NOT going to happen simultaneously - even with a 10Kwh power pack!"

They seem to be quite unequivocal and I'm sure the bike is VERY unlikely to match the expectations raised. That is what I hope Brammo (and journalists) will be realistic about.

But best of luck to the Brammo team though, we need people to do stuff like this and I'm eagerly looking forward to seeing it on sale in the UK.

[Jeff Cobb]

Originally Posted by Voyager

I don't think I said that you claimed that it would do 100/100, did I? However the Brammo video currently on YouTube seems suggest exactly that though..... It's even titled 'Brammo Empulse Electric Motorcycle -100mph/100mile range." 48 seconds in and the voice over says "Capable of 100+ mph with 100+ mile range."

Now I know this is not intended to stand up in court - but I believe that it is intentionally over-hyping the product and will only lead to disappointed customers and give ammunition to those who what to show that electric vehicles are 'not that good'.

They seem to be quite unequivocal and I'm sure the bike is VERY unlikely to match the expectations raised. That is what I hope Brammo (and journalists) will be realistic about.

But best of luck to the Brammo team though, we need people to do stuff like this and I'm eagerly looking forward to seeing it on sale in the UK.

No worries, my friend. Since I'm the only journalist who wrote this piece, I thought you were referring to what I reported. As for your assessments, trust me, we're on to these things and plenty more.

The video I'm sure was not put together as a journalistic endeavor. We re-posted it also for this article, but anyone can see Brammo supplied it despite the Motorcycle.com logo, and it's not journalistic, but marketing to be sure.

One way I would hope those frothed up expectations you think will result could be possibly shaved off would be if people fully realize the e-bike biz estimates range based on slower speeds. It is equally true to say some literbikes can deliver 186mph/43+ mpg by the same stretch of marketing license the industry currently takes. No one thinks they mean both simultaneously, but I take your point when Brammo explicitly says 100/100. That's why I let its people do all the talking, and for my part couched it, and gave a heads up to stay tuned.

Otherwise, they emphatically say the Empulse batteries are "amazing" and people won't be disappointed, so we'll see.

If you've not already read the big picture piece I did on the state of things, here it is - http://www.motorcycle.com/how-to/ele...mer-89474.html

If Brammo indeed can even deliver a $14k bike that, say hypothetically, could go 100-110 mph for bursts, plus deliver over 50-60 miles range on a single charge, with a lot of full throttle usage and speeds such as would be meted by a typical aggressive gas-rider's usage habits, then present exaggeration or not, it will still be a new milestone.

Now that they've hinted as much, this is what everyone who's interested is now waiting to see, though, isn't it?

[schizuki]

So how much does it cost per mile to run? My Bandit cost five cents per mile.

How long do the batteries last? How much to replace?

Looks like a nice toy for an enthusiast with excess disposable income, or a practical alternative for someone who's not that serious a motorcyclist.