2010 Zero S and DS Review

[seruzawa]

If wishes were fishes we'd all have a fry.

So the new energy storage system is? (crickets). Yeah, there isn't one. There wasn't one when Calif made those mandates in the 90s. Those mandates that they finally gave up on. Just the unsubstantiated dreams of liberals. Maybe one should just fund basic research and leave progress of technology to real scientists instead of politicians and bureaucrats. Mandating specific "progress" will always fail. This is why nuclear power is a disaster. The DOE mandates the specfic avenues of research which will always end up in a dead end because the govt is always A)incompetent and B)motivated by political, not scientific, concerns.

All those phones and TVs you mention are ultimately powered by coal-fired power plants. Their batteries are century old concepts.... chemical storage. That is the crux of the problem that make electric vehicles poor solutions.

Not to mention that neither govts nor industry are really interested in abandoning the oil based power structure. The entire world's economy is built on it. Wind and solar are big jokes. ... jokes on the taxpayer as Evil Big Businesses like GE suck up the public trough. Oh wait. You work for one of those evil big businesses don't you?

Some revolutionary.

[Kenneth_Moore]

Originally Posted by seruzawa

So the new energy storage system is?

All those things you mention are ultimately powered by coal-fired power plants. Their batteries are century old concepts.... chemical storage. That is the crux of the problem that make electric vehicles poor solutions.

Not to mention that neither govts nor industry are really interested in abandoning the oil based power structure. The entire world's economy is built on it. Wind and solar are big jokes. ... jokes on the taxpayer as Evil Big Businesses like GE suck up the public trough. Oh wait. You work for one of those evil big businesses don't you?

Some revolutionary.

You are as blinded by your political ideology as the Catholics who condemned Galileo were by their religion. But, it's a free country, N-Joy!

[BrowningBAR]

Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore

Ok, grab a notepad, cause I'm going to give you some pretty difficult concepts here. You may need to ask some questions afterwards.

Electric vehicles are in a stage known as an "Emerging Technology." Emerging Technologies, regardless of their end-use, are known for a few common characteristics:

Scarcity - emerging technologies are not widely available.

High comparative cost - emergine technologies do not offer a lower cost alternative to the older technologies they are competing with.

Comparatively low performance - in many, but not all cases, the older technology may actually have better performance than the emerging technology.

Let's look at two examples of emerging technolgies that you may be familiar with:

Flat panel televisions: When the first flat panel TVs came out, a 42" model was almost $12,000! Their lifespan was about 20,000 hours. The resolution was only 760X480. The plasma screens in use at that time had significant burn-in issues. They were only available at high-end electronics stores.

Cell phones: early cell phones had less than an hour of talk time. Recharging took several hours. Coverage was spotty at best, and unavailable in many rural areas. The cost was so high, most users were business people who had them as part of their job. Only one or two carriers offered service.

Now let's look at what happened with cell phones and flat panel tv's:

You can buy a 42" LCD tv with a minimum lifespan of 60,000 hours for about $600, sometimes less. Screen burn in is a thing of the past. There are dozens of brands to choose from, and they are available at thousands of retailers.

Cell phones have replaced old wire-based phones for many people. Their cost is competitive with or better than wired phones. Coverage is so good it's a point of competition. A typical cell phone can provide hours, even days, of use, without recharging. The technology is so good and so cheap, many people don't even bother installing a phone line at their home anymore when they move.

What does all this have to do with an electric motorcycle? This is the hard part: you have to take the lessons of the past and apply them to the future. Early adopters of emerging technologies pay a premium, often for lower performance. But those people often actually subsidize the technology's development for everyone else. Sometimes the government will subsidize emerging technologies, as they did with aircraft. I've chosen not to be an early adopter of E-Bike technology, but like cell phones and flat panel televisions, I know the day will come when they will be just as attractive in performance and price as gas bikes. At that point, I will most certainly entertain buying one.

That's great, though you are missing some staggering differences. And you are still conveniently ignoring how the extra demand will create a spike in power rates. Which will effect everyone, not just the people that purchase electric powered vehicles.

But, now explain how an electric powered vehicle is zero emissions.

[BrowningBAR]

Originally Posted by seruzawa

Wind and solar are big jokes.

Did you know if you install solar panels you can sell carbon credits? If I purchase enough solar panels to produce 50% of my electricity I can sell 9-10 carbon credits a year at a rate of $300 per credit? How's that for a nice little scam.

[longride]

Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore

You are as blinded by your political ideology as the Catholics who condemned Galileo were by their religion. But, it's a free country, N-Joy!

And you don't own what you profess to be our next savior (after your Messiah Obama of course), which is very KPaul-like in tone and reasoning. So much talk and so little action. All just typical Liberal nonsense. When you finally buy that electric vehicle that is every bit as good as gasoline powered, how about we have a little race across the country for some large dollars. My crappy gas vehicle against your wonderful electric vehicle. I'll be ready whenever you are. Somehow I figure you never will be.

[seruzawa]

Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore

You are as blinded by your political ideology as the Catholics who condemned Galileo were by their religion. But, it's a free country, N-Joy!

LOL! Pot meet kettle.

[seruzawa]

Originally Posted by BrowningBAR

Did you know if you install solar panels you can sell carbon credits? If I purchase enough solar panels to produce 50% of my electricity I can sell 9-10 carbon credits a year at a rate of $300 per credit? How's that for a nice little scam.

I power our cabin with solar. It's good for a few lights and a small inverter. But as a broad solution to oil dependency it is not viable. I don't have the space to store all those lead-acid batteries at home.

A better idea is the use of orbiting mirrors to beam power to receptors in the Mojave. But we can't do that because it might disturb a sand flea. Oh wait. I didn't just recommend space-based cheap eternal power did I? I couldn't have because I am blinded by my politics. Never mind.

I don't know a single liberal who uses solar, owns an electric car, rides the bus, car pools, etc. Pretty funny. Though they will sit around the campfire and decry how wasteful everyone but themselves are. They drove there in 4wd trucks too.

[longride]

"
You are as blinded by your political ideology as the Catholics who condemned Galileo were by their religion. But, it's a free country, N-Joy! "


Isn't that right up there with anyone that doesn't believe in 'Global Warm.'' errr "Climate Change" is a 'Flat Earther"?? Right out of Algore's playbook. Funny how Ken switched sides on that issue too.

Ken, were those the same Catholics that were in bed with the Nazis?? Just asking.

[Kenneth_Moore]

Originally Posted by BrowningBAR

That's great, though you are missing some staggering differences. And you are still conveniently ignoring how the extra demand will create a spike in power rates. Which will effect everyone, not just the people that purchase electric powered vehicles.

But, now explain how an electric powered vehicle is zero emissions.

I'm not ignoring anything. I can't predict what impact electric vehicles will have on electricity prices. If you think you can predict electricity prices, you should work on Wall St.

I never called anything zero emissions. By throwing this BS out, you conveniently ignore my points in my post. So "nyah nyah nyah."

[longride]

"I'm not ignoring anything."

I'd say reality and truth are being ignored in your Liberal agenda, but that's just me I guess.