2010 Zero S and DS Review

[mugwump58]

Hey, what happened to the market will respond. Oh yea of little faith. But yeah currently this whole electric thing is umm, yeah, Buck Rodger stuff. Vegetarians with really cool shoes and belts. Anyhow until the things will do 100 miles at freeway speeds between charges I only have a passing interest. It would be nice to see the electric bike racing push envelopes, too bad that already looks like a goat ****, nice job guys, it took the Indy car people what 100 years to **** that up, you beat that time line to death, again nice job, did you get a performance bonus for that?

Oh some much vitreole on such a nice day. If it were raining I'd go for a ride.

[longride]

Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore

Read my review of the Zero bike in my Daytona post. Your answer is there.

I reallly don't want to read it. Just tell us all which electric vehicles you own. After all, you seem to be an expert on them and their viablity.

[BrowningBAR]

Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore

Now imagine building a few dozen nuclear plants with no coal or oil required.

Electric cars and bikes are just a part of a new paradigm for transportation and energy. I happen to think a hydrogen based energy economy is an excellent choice, and electic vehicles fit right into it.

I won't touch on the first part of your post as it will seem like I am attacking, I also don't feel like posting links that prove the flaws and errors in the first part of your statement (specifically your comments on CA's power capabilities).

But, you can imagine all you want what it would be like to build a 'few dozen nuke plants', but that doesn't solve anything as it won't happen because of irrational concerns over nuclear power. 60% of our electricity comes from coal. Electric powered vehicles are NOT zero emission and will not limit pollution.

And if you think that the additional demand of power will not make electricity rates sky rocket than that really highlights a lack of understanding.

[BrowningBAR]

Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore

As much as I wanted to like the Zero bike, I didn't. It's clearly a "Gen-1" product, no where near ready for what I need a bike to do. The build quality reminds me of a really good science project. It doesn't look like a finished machine to me; more a hand-built one-off with a lot of rough edges. The Zero DS might be fun to ride up to the grocery store (if you put some bags on it), and if you lived in a small country town, it might be a commuter. But taking that bike out in South Florida traffic would be insane...not enough power to dodge cages, too light to handle a semi's wake on the highway. The price, just under $10,000, is a lousy value compared to almost any gas bike. If you're rich and want a toy, call Zero. If you need a motorcycle that can take you places for real, go buy a gas bike. But that's ok, the first automobiles weren't that good an alternative to a horse and buggy.

Sounds fantastic. Poor build quality, lack of power, and an inability to use in real world environments.

All for $10,000.

Now, when the masses do not flock to this bike I better not hear how the U.S. isn't interested in alt-fuel technology.

[seruzawa]

Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore

You might want to take a look at fuell cell technolgy Seruzawa, it's an incredibly efficient battery technology that overcomes all of your noted shortcomings.

Ha! You have theoretical and practical education on batteries like I do, right? You can define internal resistance and its effect on charging and discharging rates? Energy density?

Now, on to fuel cells. A neat idea. Except for having the hydrogen to fuel them. Hydrogen is produced through electrolysis. Which takes electricity.. which we make by burning coal.... and so it goes.

I'm not against electric cars, per se. Just the crappy ones available using today's century old chemical processes, which require coal-fired plants to charge them, use large toxic cells and have ridiculously short ranges. But go buy one please.

[longride]

"But go buy one please."

I guess actions speak louder than bullshyt??

[The_AirHawk]

Originally Posted by mscuddy

A hybrid with a 50cc diesel hooked up to a generator wirh nicad batteries might work. I am still waiting for my IH hit-or-miss motor with the 750 KWH generator hooked up to it to get delivered by that miserable cartage company that seems to loose my bill of lading every few hours. I'm so PO'd I even forgot the name..maybe by the time I'm sixty.

CRST! Yes, that's the trucking company! Cut Rate Stupid Trucking.

Dood, they TELL you they're "Cursed" right on the side of the truck.........

[Buzglyd]

Originally Posted by seruzawa

Ha! You have theoretical and practical education on batteries like I do, right? You can define internal resistance and its effect on charging and discharging rates? Energy density?

Now, on to fuel cells. A neat idea. Except for having the hydrogen to fuel them. Hydrogen is produced through electrolysis. Which takes electricity.. which we make by burning coal.... and so it goes.

I'm not against electric cars, per se. Just the crappy ones available using today's century old chemical processes, which require coal-fired plants to charge them, use large toxic cells and have ridiculously short ranges. But go buy one please.

I thought electrolysis is what Greek women used to remove their mustaches.

Oh who am I kidding, Greek women don't remove their mustaches.

[Kenneth_Moore]

Originally Posted by longride

I reallly don't want to read it. Just tell us all which electric vehicles you own. After all, you seem to be an expert on them and their viablity.

Ok, grab a notepad, cause I'm going to give you some pretty difficult concepts here. You may need to ask some questions afterwards.

Electric vehicles are in a stage known as an "Emerging Technology." Emerging Technologies, regardless of their end-use, are known for a few common characteristics:

Scarcity - emerging technologies are not widely available.

High comparative cost - emergine technologies do not offer a lower cost alternative to the older technologies they are competing with.

Comparatively low performance - in many, but not all cases, the older technology may actually have better performance than the emerging technology.

Let's look at two examples of emerging technolgies that you may be familiar with:

Flat panel televisions: When the first flat panel TVs came out, a 42" model was almost $12,000! Their lifespan was about 20,000 hours. The resolution was only 760X480. The plasma screens in use at that time had significant burn-in issues. They were only available at high-end electronics stores.

Cell phones: early cell phones had less than an hour of talk time. Recharging took several hours. Coverage was spotty at best, and unavailable in many rural areas. The cost was so high, most users were business people who had them as part of their job. Only one or two carriers offered service.

Now let's look at what happened with cell phones and flat panel tv's:

You can buy a 42" LCD tv with a minimum lifespan of 60,000 hours for about $600, sometimes less. Screen burn in is a thing of the past. There are dozens of brands to choose from, and they are available at thousands of retailers.

Cell phones have replaced old wire-based phones for many people. Their cost is competitive with or better than wired phones. Coverage is so good it's a point of competition. A typical cell phone can provide hours, even days, of use, without recharging. The technology is so good and so cheap, many people don't even bother installing a phone line at their home anymore when they move.

What does all this have to do with an electric motorcycle? This is the hard part: you have to take the lessons of the past and apply them to the future. Early adopters of emerging technologies pay a premium, often for lower performance. But those people often actually subsidize the technology's development for everyone else. Sometimes the government will subsidize emerging technologies, as they did with aircraft. I've chosen not to be an early adopter of E-Bike technology, but like cell phones and flat panel televisions, I know the day will come when they will be just as attractive in performance and price as gas bikes. At that point, I will most certainly entertain buying one.

[longride]

"Ok, grab a notepad.."

I have one, now please tell us which electric vehicles you own. I guess it's real tough for a Liberal to answer a question. After that, tell me how many miles people travel in a cell phone and a flat panel TV.

"What does all this have to do with an electric motorcycle?"

Nothing at all, but you avoided the question I asked completely, so I guess it was worth something right?

"I know the day will come when they will be just as attractive in performance and price as gas bikes. At that point, I will most certainly entertain buying one."

I guess you know something that nobody else in the world knows right now. Wouldn't be the first time for you.