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Old 03-23-2010, 03:08 AM   #1
sakinoko
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Lightbulb The newbie lives!!!

Hey guys, been a good little bit since I posted on here, just wanted to give an update for any of you that remember my first post or care to look it up :P.

I started out here asking about different bikes from a new-to-street rider perspective, you know the guy that asks for advice and hates the answers he's getting... Well I'm here to say to all that responded, thank you for your help. I may have seemed (and even been) thick headed, but what you all said really made me stop and think. Do I really need a supersport as my first street bike? If so, can I really handle the beast? And I went from headstrong smart guy, to second guessing noob.

I eventually ended up buying the bike of my dreams, 09 GSXR 1000... And as so many warned me before, yes she is a beast (and a sexy one at that!), and yes she could kill me or injure me thoroughly without a moments notice. But as I said in the beginning you all made me think, not in the "Yea you're right, let me buy a bike I don't really like to learn on" sense, but in the "Let me really remember what this thing can do to me if I, even for a moment, pretend I know what I'm doing" kind. To some I'm a fool, to others an enthusiast, but I am luckily still alive and actually learning very quickly on my new bike . I don't advise what I did to newbies, and do agree with everyone that a supersport (especially 1k) is more bike than you'll ever need on the street, and more bike than even most track goers will ever use. However I would hope that rather than put the fear of god into the person (in the future) you guys take a more subtle approach to a person's request for confirmation.

As I now know, and all your older riders know... Newbies come here and ask about big bikes for only one reason... So we say "Yea that's a great bike, you'll love it" not to hear the truth of how dangerous it is. Though I have met several riders since starting up myself that did as I did and started on a big fast monster of a bike, but did so with care and caution and are fine to this day. So to you all my suggestion is this... Yes continue to explain the dangers of a powerful bike to new street riders (especially those who have never ridden before), however use of the "You'll kill or seriously injure yourself" line is far too hard edge and will do little to educate the newbie. Some, like myself, come here with a head full of magazine articles that tell me how awesome the performance of a supersport is, and sometimes you just need to let the air out of that balloon a little, rather than take a needle to it and pop it outright. Shattering someone's dreams tends to only put them on the defensive and at that point your argument is falling on deaf ears, and that benefits noone, not you for posting it, or the newbie who needs real advice. What I do as someone who did start on the street on a supersport is just explain the problems they are going to face starting with such a bike.

I feel you guys that answered my previous thread helped me (though at times maliciously) really look at myself and even gave me the mental tools needed to not flip my bike the first time I ever hopped on. Thanks again to you folks here at Motorcycle.com for the advice and I hope this in someway helps some other newbie down the road realize the dangers of what they are getting into and though it may not change their mind on the bike they want to get, I do hope it ends up making them think and changing the way they look at themselves ON the bike they want to get.
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Old 03-23-2010, 05:58 AM   #2
Kenneth_Moore
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How many miles do you have on the bike?
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:33 AM   #3
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"Though I have met several riders since starting up myself that did as I did and started on a big fast monster of a bike, but did so with care and caution and are fine to this day."

I'm glad this is so, but is skirts the real issues. First, a liter bike is the worst learning tool you could have. You would learn easier and faster on a smaller bike with less power because the margin of error will be greater with a slower bike. Second, there are way too many people that aren't fine to this day that chose their liter bike. They started way over their head and got seriously injured or died because they made a stupid decision. Tempting fate by posting that you haven't died yet isn't the way I'd go, but every person has the right to choose what they want.
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:54 AM   #4
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In a sense the fact that you had the smarts to even seek advice from experienced riders shows a higher level of smarts than the majority of new riders. I see plenty of them on the interstate on Gixxers in shorts and flip-flops every year.

People who can't take the opinions about the subject of learning to ride you find on MO probably shouldn't learn to ride. Most anyone I know who has been riding 20 years or more will tell you what we told you. And none of them will pull punches. Sorry if it hurts feelings, but broken backs and crushed femurs hurt worse. If it's any consolation we say the same thing to newbies who want 700 pound cruisers.

There's a reason that the insurance on a GSX1000 is more than the cost of the bike for a young new rider. I'm certainly not pulling any punches on this subject. It's not to be offensive. It's to make the facts known in no uncertain terms. Like teaching a boot to throw a frag. If you do it wrong and screw up even a little you will die. The "rudeness" is out of a desire to help the new guy survive, not crush his spirit. The fact someone even wants to ride shows he has much more spirit than 90% of the population.

Would someone try to scale El Capitan as his first attempt at rock climbing? Well, starting on a GSX1000 is a lot more dangerous.

Don't get me wrong. In your case I'm glad you beat the odds and proved me wrong. But a massively higher proportion of people who start out on race replicas get killed than those who start on Super Sherpas. So, I'll keep promoting the same DP bikes to new people and keep calling them foolish to start out on liter-bikes or Vulcan 2000s. If people only want to hear what they want to hear then there are plenty of sportbike and cruiser sites for that.
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:43 AM   #5
Dr_Sprocket
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longride View Post
"Though I have met several riders since starting up myself that did as I did and started on a big fast monster of a bike, but did so with care and caution and are fine to this day."

I'm glad this is so, but is skirts the real issues. First, a liter bike is the worst learning tool you could have. You would learn easier and faster on a smaller bike with less power because the margin of error will be greater with a slower bike. Second, there are way too many people that aren't fine to this day that chose their liter bike. They started way over their head and got seriously injured or died because they made a stupid decision. Tempting fate by posting that you haven't died yet isn't the way I'd go, but every person has the right to choose what they want.
^^^^^ Yeah! What he said. ^^^^^

Glad you did okay, but to think that you are safe now is false thinking. Keep taking MSF courses and riding courses. Keep practicing your skills.

Question: have you ever gone out on a ride to specifically practice one skill or another (i.e. take the bike out to practice emergency braking, time after time)? How about practicing swerving technique in an empty parking lot? Or, how about riding while specifically trying to improve your cornering by turning your head just a little bit more? If you answered "no", then you still have a whole lot more to learn.

Remember, practice does NOT make perfect. Practice makes permanent. If you practice bad riding habits, they will become permanent.
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Last edited by Dr_Sprocket : 03-23-2010 at 09:44 AM. Reason: spel lyk dummee
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:53 AM   #6
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Experienced motorcyclists know that a newbie wants an exciting, fast, supersport bike as a first bike, and thinks that s/he'll be the exception to the rule and survive the experience without injury. And that's because experienced motorcyclists started out as newbies themselves and had that same desire. However, experienced motorcyclists also know that that is a really stupid thing to do. Really. Stupid.

Your first post was in mid February, and you said you had been riding your friend's "650 for the past six months". So you've now been riding for seven months, and you've been on the Gixxer Thou for a month. One month. You're not out of the woods yet by a long shot.
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Old 03-24-2010, 04:40 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longride View Post
Tempting fate by posting that you haven't died yet isn't the way I'd go, but every person has the right to choose what they want.
Sorry if you think I was posting to say "HAHAHA You guys are so wrong, I beat the odds!". That's not at all how I meant this... It was more meant to thank you all for your kick ass advice and mention that my personal opinion is that newbies should be let down a little softer than "You're 100% destined to end up dead or vegetable". I'll never beat the odds even after 50 years of riding and cruising around at 78 on my Gold Wing, I'll still always be ready to learn something new, and treat my ride with the utmost respect. And of course keep in mind that every cager out there is trying their damndest to kill me lol :P

Dr_Sprocket;
Yes I do practice my skills constantly and every turn I take daily I try to take smoother and stick to tighter lines while observing more and more of the turn each time I take it... it seems my post might have been worded improperly or just misread as I do not mean to say that I know all or see all and that's why I'm able to ride my beast safely. I do practice often, ride daily, and am always open to learn new skills or improve already learned skills. As for taking more advanced MSF courses I am actually signed up for one next week, it's just above the basic one (Don't know if there are others past it or not) where you do pretty much the basic course + some more advanced maneuvers, while on your own bike. I'm actually quite excited to see what more I can learn from this course .


trenttheuncatchable;
Your words are honest and true, I take every day with the same caution and care as my first day when I learned the friction-zone of the 1000's clutch. I plan to be riding for a very long time and have a healthy fear of death, hopefully these coupled with my desire and ability to learn will forever keep me above the pavement .
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Old 03-24-2010, 04:44 AM   #8
sakinoko
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Originally Posted by seruzawa View Post
People who can't take the opinions about the subject of learning to ride you find on MO probably shouldn't learn to ride
True enough, though what I was saying is... shouldn't we (me trying to include myself in the ranks of experienced riders :P) try and help in ways that don't IMMEDIATELY destroy their fantasy? As with me when I got such huge negative responses even some saying what a retard or troll I am for even asking such a question, it's really far too harsh, you can still get the same message across about the dangers of riding a race rep or even a larger than skill level bike without all the head bashing right from the get go.

Does this seem unreasonable?

Last edited by sakinoko : 03-24-2010 at 04:44 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 03-24-2010, 05:25 AM   #9
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Does this seem unreasonable?
No it doesn't. And I do not engage in name calling on new guys unlike some I could mention.

But no matter how sugar coated it may be their hopes are still gonna get dashed.
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Old 03-24-2010, 06:20 AM   #10
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How many miles do you have on the bike?
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