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Old 03-12-2010, 08:20 AM   #21
sarnali2
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I've already used the ABS on the Tiger to keep from hitting some fool bytch that shot out of a parking lot in front of me. Works like a charm.

I've used it more than a few times on my bagger, like you say it works like a charm, specially in the rain or wet roads.

Mokester, 90% of the time it doesn't even come into play and you brake as usual so the "don't learn breaking skills" argument falls flat as far as I'm concerned. You still have to ride in normal everyday conditions and if you're performance riding you're still going to nail the front brake, crank-n-bank, trail brake or whatever technique you normally use. ABS comes into play when gramma in her Sable decides it's her turn to go and pulls out right in front of you. Instead of just drop the anchor and hope for the best ABS allows you to keep control of the bike and try steering out of the way without locking up and sliding.

It works for me anyway. I thought the linked brake power assisted ABS on my '02 R1150RT totally stunk and I sold the bike because of it, however the Harley Brembo set-up and apparently the Triumph set up is invisible until you need it. It's saved my bacon a time or two.
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Old 03-12-2010, 08:27 AM   #22
Kenneth_Moore
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When the first 100hp bikes came out, the bike magazines were filled with dire predictions of widespread death and destruction. How could mortal rider handle this level of power? Today, 100hp is no big deal. But, there have been incremental improvements in the supporting technologies that go along with the power increases: better brakes, frames, tires, etc. There are limitations in the real world, and as power goes up, there HAVE to be corresponding technologies on the bikes to manage it. If you don't want traction control or ABS, don't buy a sub 500 lb bike with 150+ hp. I don't care how good you are, you can't change the laws of physics.
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Old 03-12-2010, 09:38 AM   #23
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When the first 100hp bikes came out, the bike magazines were filled with dire predictions of widespread death and destruction. How could mortal rider handle this level of power? Today, 100hp is no big deal. But, there have been incremental improvements in the supporting technologies that go along with the power increases: better brakes, frames, tires, etc. There are limitations in the real world, and as power goes up, there HAVE to be corresponding technologies on the bikes to manage it. If you don't want traction control or ABS, don't buy a sub 500 lb bike with 150+ hp. I don't care how good you are, you can't change the laws of physics.
You are right but how much control are we willing to give over to automation before the sport becomes a joke? No one wants to crash but if an uncrashable bike is ever actually realized there will be no reason to own one any more. The next step would be having a robot pilot on the bike and you just sit on it and enjoy the view.
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Old 03-12-2010, 10:03 AM   #24
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You are right but how much control are we willing to give over to automation before the sport becomes a joke? No one wants to crash but if an uncrashable bike is ever actually realized there will be no reason to own one any more. The next step would be having a robot pilot on the bike and you just sit on it and enjoy the view.
Take a ride on a BMW S1000RR with ABS and TC, then try to tell us how much of a joke our sport is. We'll all still be 20 or more seconds slower than a WSB racer. The automated motorcycle is still a long, long way away.
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Old 03-12-2010, 10:10 AM   #25
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You are right but how much control are we willing to give over to automation before the sport becomes a joke? No one wants to crash but if an uncrashable bike is ever actually realized there will be no reason to own one any more. The next step would be having a robot pilot on the bike and you just sit on it and enjoy the view.
I understand your point and agree with you; it is possible to engineer a bike that's there is absolutely no point to ride.

Interestingly, the power management and braking systems being rolled out are being put there by the manufacturers, not like airbags that were mandated. Much of it is racetrack technology that's trickling down to the street. Likewise, customers want the technology; the VStrom forum has many posts lamenting Suzuki's failure to offer ABS on the DL1000 (they have it on the 650!).
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Old 03-12-2010, 10:54 AM   #26
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Take a ride on a BMW S1000RR with ABS and TC, then try to tell us how much of a joke our sport is. We'll all still be 20 or more seconds slower than a WSB racer. The automated motorcycle is still a long, long way away.
I realize that bikes are reaching levels of power that are increasingly fatal for more and more riders and that these electronic safeguards are becoming necessary in street bikes. There are already attempts to reign in motorcycle power by various states and countries. Keeping the fatalities down might keep these govts off of our backs.

I'm just wondering that just maybe if the bikes are so powerful that they really need these safeguards then maybe we've finally achieved the Holy Grail of "Enough Power".

I'm just waiting for the radar that detects the turn ahead and automatically cuts power and applies brakes? It's here right now in cars.
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Old 03-12-2010, 11:34 AM   #27
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I'm just waiting for the radar that detects the turn ahead and automatically cuts power and applies brakes? It's here right now in cars.
Here's what has me worried: braking and acceleration in cars is becomeing completely controlled by software. Not just enhanced, as in an ABS system or FI, but completely and totally manged by firmware. When the Prius/Toyota thing hit the fan, I heard that part of the fix was a new "download." I've been working with firmware driven control units for many years, and I can tell you, it's scary as hell to me that a car's braking or acceleration control is only as good as the latest release of firmware.

I can see it now:
"Klazy Ken guarantee dis bike got all the latest download! We fix all bug in BrakeModule 7.5.01, now you got 7.5.02A, and let me tell you, dis baby stop on dime and give back change!"
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Old 03-12-2010, 12:11 PM   #28
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Here's what has me worried: braking and acceleration in cars is becomeing completely controlled by software. Not just enhanced, as in an ABS system or FI, but completely and totally manged by firmware. When the Prius/Toyota thing hit the fan, I heard that part of the fix was a new "download." I've been working with firmware driven control units for many years, and I can tell you, it's scary as hell to me that a car's braking or acceleration control is only as good as the latest release of firmware.

I can see it now:
"Klazy Ken guarantee dis bike got all the latest download! We fix all bug in BrakeModule 7.5.01, now you got 7.5.02A, and let me tell you, dis baby stop on dime and give back change!"


Become a Luddite like me and you won't have to worry about it. I'm perfectly happy riding around in my 8 year old Explorer, no car payments and usable features instead of gee-whiz gadgetry. I'd rather make do with less than deal with car payments and electronics up the ying-yang. My Fly-By-Wire bike is bad enough
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Old 03-12-2010, 12:38 PM   #29
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Become a Luddite like me and you won't have to worry about it. I'm perfectly happy riding around in my 8 year old Explorer, no car payments and usable features instead of gee-whiz gadgetry. I'd rather make do with less than deal with car payments and electronics up the ying-yang. My Fly-By-Wire bike is bad enough
My cousin bought herself a recent 4 Runner. Oh the power train is reliable all right. But it's frequently in the shop because the rear hatch release (automatic only - no manual release lever) quits, the 4WD button (auto only) quits or the interior temperature sensor quits or... or... or...... I'm happy with the 12 year old Prius-crushing 3/4 ton that I paid cash for. Be time for a new engine next year when it turns 200,000 or so. Let others put their wealth in their driveway.
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