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Old 12-30-2009, 10:35 AM   #141
MOKE1K
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Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore View Post
Not to quibble, but "fly by wire," as I know it wasn't implemented on any production bikes until very recently. The '09 R1 is the first Japanese bike with it to my knowledge; it might be the only 1 in the Big 4 lineup at this point.
Absolutly correct Klazy BUT it isnt a true fly-by-wire. There are still cables to the injectors. Its from the injector to the ECU thats a wire. The only real fly-by-wire that I know of is on the new Can-am Spyder RT-S no cables at all.
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Old 12-30-2009, 10:38 AM   #142
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"I don't know how much of HD's design and development was driven by competition."

I do. None.
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Old 12-30-2009, 12:22 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by seruzawa View Post
For what it's worth I remember getting a letter from Willie Davidson when I was still a member of HOG back in the 80s. It apologized for the large number of foreign made parts that HD was forced to use, but that they were trying to get their parts from caucasian countries rather than oriental ones. While it didn't mention any specific amounts of parts they must have been substantial for him to send the letter at all. I remember this because at the time I thought sending something like that was pretty wacky.
You can say wacky again.

If my life was depending on the reliability of some equipment I would much rather choose a Japanese product than an American, British, or God forbid, Italian. Or any other country for that matter. And I dare say I am not the only one with my opinion.

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Old 12-30-2009, 12:38 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by longride View Post
"I don't know how much of HD's design and development was driven by competition."

I do. None.
Harley admittedly dominate the cruiser marketplace. But to say it has no competition is a fallacy. The V-Star 950 is Yamaha's best-selling model. The Thunderbird is one of Triumph's best sellers. Victory is a profitable enterprise for Polaris. If these (and other) companies are making money selling cruisers, then that's less potential money being spent on Harleys.

Keep in mind I didn't say I hate Harleys or think they are inferior products!
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Old 12-30-2009, 01:21 PM   #145
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"the 96 cubic-inch Harley Twin managed 80.4 ft-lbs and a modest peak horsepower reading of 61.4 ponies"

Geez. My Harley has 88 ci and dynoed 64 hp - so the extra 8 ci has apparently produced a massive improvement of minus 2.6 ponies. This new strategy "winning by even lamer engines" lends a completely new meaning to term reverse engineering.

There are several ramifications of this. One is that Harley is increasingly positioning itself as the old man's bike. Second is that the heavy end of the cruiser kingdom has been given to others, without even a prentence of a fight. Third is that the owners of the huge base of big hogs don't have an upgrade possibility within the brand.

Would I trade my already wimpy 64 rwhp bike up to 61 hp? Absurd. Its like trying to sell minus 1 inch penis enlargement operations. I don't know how Harley will compete in the future but one thing is sure: their strategy of giving a massive power handicap to the competition will not help.

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Old 12-30-2009, 01:36 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by anrajala View Post
"the 96 cubic-inch Harley Twin managed 80.4 ft-lbs and a modest peak horsepower reading of 61.4 ponies"

Geez. My Harley has 88 ci and dynoed 64 hp - so the extra 8 ci has apparently produced a massive improvement of minus 2.6 ponies. This new strategy "winning by even lamer engines" lends a completely new meaning to term reverse engineering.

There are several ramifications of this. One is that Harley is increasingly positioning itself as the old man's bike. Second is that the heavy end of the cruiser kingdom has been given to others, without even a prentence of a fight. Third is that the owners of the huge base of big hogs don't have an upgrade possibility within the brand.

Would I trade my already wimpy 64 rwhp bike up to 61 hp? Absurd. Its like trying to sell minus 1 inch penis enlargement operations. I don't know how Harley will compete in the future but one thing is sure: their strategy of giving a massive power handicap to the competition will not help.

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There's more to a story about power than just peak horsepower. The TC96 is a preferable motor to the TC88.
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Old 12-30-2009, 01:52 PM   #147
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Still he does have a point. And maybe his misconception is I dont think Harley really cares about HP. I think the bikes are more centered around heritage and nostalgia. The cruise is more important to them and I can respect that.
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Old 12-30-2009, 02:04 PM   #148
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Still he does have a point. And maybe his misconception is I dont think Harley really cares about HP. I think the bikes are more centered around heritage and nostalgia. The cruise is more important to them and I can respect that.
Harley's worldwide reputation as an American icon means they don't have to be as concerned about class-leading power. However, that isn't to say H-D won't be spending R&D dollars on making more power. I predict the TC103 will become the standard engine in 2011 Hogs.
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Old 12-30-2009, 02:19 PM   #149
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"But to say it has no competition is a fallacy."

That isn't what I said.
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Old 12-30-2009, 03:57 PM   #150
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The 96 inch motor has plenty of power within it's design envelope. It's not in the same class as an FJR, Connie 14 or a K-GT but it's not meant to be, if you want triple digit touring then those are your choices. Up to 100 mph the 96 inch motor is plenty quick enough, you just need to twist the loud handle like any other bike.
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