Originally Posted by roadhamr

these are all great acheivements for harley. the efi system has been around for 25 years and has been used successfully in everything from cars to atvs before harley started to use it. catalytic converters are a neccesity because of sticking with aor cooling and have been in the automotive world for 25 years at least.brembo brakes, great stuff! made by another company. air suspension has been on bikes for alot of years. old tech for sure. throttle by wire is certainly not new tech either and has been used successfully in bikes for years now by the japanese. 6 speed tranny, no big thing. japanese in the 80's. electronic cruise, again the japanese long time ago. harley has come along way and build a very good product for what it is. there are deficiencies in all designs and harley's typically center around performance issues. there has been improvements and hopefully the victory will push them to take it even further.
discussing any topic sometimes can ruffle feathers but efforts must be made to remove emotions from the discussion and try to deal with facts.

Originally Posted by roadhamr

these are all great acheivements for harley. the efi system has been around for 25 years and has been used successfully in everything from cars to atvs before harley started to use it. catalytic converters are a neccesity because of sticking with aor cooling and have been in the automotive world for 25 years at least.brembo brakes, great stuff! made by another company. air suspension has been on bikes for alot of years. old tech for sure. throttle by wire is certainly not new tech either and has been used successfully in bikes for years now by the japanese. 6 speed tranny, no big thing. japanese in the 80's. electronic cruise, again the japanese long time ago. harley has come along way and build a very good product for what it is. there are deficiencies in all designs and harley's typically center around performance issues. there has been improvements and hopefully the victory will push them to take it even further.
discussing any topic sometimes can ruffle feathers but efforts must be made to remove emotions from the discussion and try to deal with facts.

Originally Posted by MOKE1K

The Japanese using pushrod engines in my opinion is to copy Harley. Thats it, its a shame they would even consider it. I will agree with Seruzawa that, that is what the Japanese do. Copy it and attempt to make it better.

Originally Posted by MOKE1K

The Japanese using pushrod engines in my opinion is to copy Harley. Thats it, its a shame they would even consider it. I will agree with Seruzawa that, that is what the Japanese do. Copy it and make it better.

Originally Posted by sarnali2

You're clouding the issue. no one said Harley invented any of those things, however you made the statement that Harley was technologically inferiour to Victory and by implication, everyone else. I merely refuted your argument with the facts.

The bottom line is here that I really don't feel the need to defend my choice. My bike does everything I ask it to and more, further I have nothing against Victory as I think they're fine machines. What's odd is your constant need to "prove" that Victory is better, are you insecure about it?

Originally Posted by seruzawa

Well hold on to your horses because OHC has no advantage at all over pushrods in long stroke low rpm engines. OHC only gives an advantage at higher rpms in controlling valve float. GM used pushrods in its latest truck engine series because they work just a well as OHC and the assembly/production costs are less.

Ever heard of Lycoming? They make aircraft engines. They would be very surprised to know just how inferior their engines are because they use pushrods.

Take the V-4 engine configuration. It rules in MotoGP. So, why don't you see them produced commercially? Because they are a lot more expensive to make for a performance advantage that is pretty small compared to an inline engine. This is partially why the Honda VFR costs as much as a Sprint ST. So users go, "Hmmmm. I can have another 250cc and another 30HP for the same money..... duh!"

For that matter the Japanese are hopelessly outdated in their insistence on building inferior I-4s.

This is fun.

Originally Posted by MOKE1K

Seruzawa Iam not saying one is better than another Iam giving my opinion on why the Japanese used them on the Stratoliner/Roadliner. Better or worse they use it because its a copy-cat Harley. I think they really lower the bar when they copy Harley. I know this isnt the popular opinion here but I perfer the Japanese design.