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Old 10-02-2009, 03:41 PM   #11
Super Hunky
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Originally Posted by Kevin_Duke View Post
And how would that CL350 hold up over a triple jump, assuming you could actually get it to weigh (full of fuel) what you claim, which I think is unlikely? Even Marty's RC500 would be blown apart by the punishment of modern MX tracks.

Do you honestly think "weight isn't an issue" for OEMs? That's silly. Otherwise they wouldn't add costly titanium, magnesium and aluminum bits that add considerably to the MSRP.

Yes, it is all about "designing/releasing an improved machine," and by all accounts the 2010 YZ is better than the '09. Throwing in how a two-stroker might compare is a red herring, as several factors have made them nearly non-existent.

The decrease in dirtbike sales from the early '70s till now has much more to do with demographics than what kind of bikes are currently on the market. A huge group of baby boomers and unrestricted riding area made the 1970s perfect for off-road sales. This has all changed, including restrictive emissions regs.

These conspiracy theories about OEMs somehow adding weight that isn't needed are tiresome. If you want a durable product, it can't be made flimsy. And if an OEM has to be competitive on weight (like sportbikes and MXers), it will cost more money. There is a direct relationship between lightness and money, which is why most bikes aren't as light as they possibly could be.
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Mister Duke

I feel compelled to answer your somewhat naïve thoughts on the new four strokes. Since the early 60s, I have owned many, many dirt bikes and have ridden several thousand. My name is Rick Sieman, otherwise known as Super Hunky, and I feel that I am sort of an expert on dirt bikes.

The modern four stroke dirt bike that we have today is a sad joke. For example: the Honda manual states that you will get between 15 and 30 hours of riding time before you're ready for a rebuild. The typical cost for a rebuild, less transmission, is over $3000. Is it any wonder that we see page after page in Cycle Trader with two strokes a year or two old selling for around $2800 or so.

I can vividly recall racing a big 500cc 2 stroke for over a year and I put a set of rings and it simply because I felt guilty. Ever since the mid-1970s, the ability of dirt bikes to take a pounding from any track, no matter how rough, has been solved.

A typical modern four stroke 450 racer, weighs almost 250 pounds with no gas in it. It costs about $8000 once you figure in tax and title. The very best of this current crop of bikes needs a complete leak-down test after 15 or 16 hours of riding. Less if you're an expert. This is ludicrous and is the main contributor to declining dirt bike sales.

In 1972, almost 1,000,000 dirt bikes were sold. Nice simple bikes that you could ride for years without spending any serious money on them. Now you have utterly complicated bikes that people can't work on and cost a bloody fortune to buy, maintain and repair. This is progress?

I have in my garage at the moment, a number of dirt bikes. One of them is a 1983 490 Maico. It weighs 222 pounds and has more horsepower than any rational human being could ever want. It will comfortably beat any modern four stroke in a straight line drag race. Think about it... this bike is almost 30 years old and accelerates so hard that it takes your breath away. As far as a rebuild, I might think about it in a few more years.

I can do a top end on my bike in an hour or so. It would probably take you a half hour to just get the sparkplug off your modern 450.

Progress? I think not.
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Old 10-02-2009, 04:11 PM   #12
Kevin_Duke
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Hey, Rick! Great to hear from the legendary Super Hunky!

Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I needed to be in my previous post. I love two-strokes! After riding and racing two-stroke dirtbikes, my first streetbike was a Yamaha RZ500 cuz I loved two-strokes so much. The power-to-weight ratio of a two-stroke engine simply can't be beat by a four-stroker. And when it comes to riding in the dirt, my flimsy body prefers to massage a clutch lever over trying to rein in an extra dozen or two pounds. Two-cycle engines are cheap to build and are cheap to service, whenever they do get around to needing service.

But unless somebody comes up with a way to make ring-dingers burn clean while operating at high revs, they will have limited access to American/California riding areas and, thus, a limited marketplace. The FIM and AMA rulebooks didn't help, either. And the fact that the EPA has virtually banished any form of two-stroke streetbike with their emissions regs has also helped seal the two-stroke engine's fate. I'm at least happy to see YZs and KTMs still available in two-stroke forms, so at least those who want 'em and have a place to ride them can still get 'em.

Anyway, it's a pleasure to be addressed by Super Hunky, even if it's to call me out! I'd love to see you here more often.
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Old 10-03-2009, 09:31 AM   #13
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Super Hunky Rules!
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Old 10-03-2009, 10:14 AM   #14
mscuddy
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Don't make me open up a can of Super Hunky next time, might get ugly...and he does have an '83 Spyder 490, it will literally rip your ams off.
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