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Old 04-19-2009, 08:15 AM   #21
mugwump58
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I don't know everything I see says up! They're pushing the manditory classes real hard. I figured this was common knowledge.

While the rate for the age groups is typically lower the rate of increase is startling.

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Old 04-19-2009, 08:37 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longride View Post
"Such care and compassion?"

I hate to side with the military guys on this one MOKE, but they pay for your training, roof, meals, clothes and pay your salary after you sign up. At that point, their investment in you is for military purposes only. Yes, they want you to die for them. Care and compassion isn't part of the package.
Yeah I thought about that but sheez, if your not even on the clock and you need little R&R what the hay? Or maybe its the fact that some slimmy salesman doesnt care about matching their experience to the proper bike.
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Old 04-19-2009, 09:12 AM   #23
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Or maybe its the fact that some slimmy salesman doesnt care about matching their experience to the proper bike.
BINGO! You hit the nail on the head! I could see tiered licensing instituted in the armed services soon. Accident rates will go down. After that, it won't be long before the push for the rest of the US.

Guns first, motocycles next, then... the world! Mmwwuuuhhaahaa! (fade from evil laughter)
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Old 04-19-2009, 09:25 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pplassm View Post
????? Where did you hear that? MoveOn.org? I still work with people in the know, and the word is that suicide is at the same rate as the general population.
Yeah but it used to be lower. The Bushies changed some policies back around 2006. Apparently there is far more distribution of drugs to active troops than there used to be. and the dirty secret no one wants to talk about is that anti-depressants increase suicide risk, not decrease. Johnny's not smoking pot any more. He's f*cked up on Zoloft.
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Old 04-19-2009, 09:36 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longride View Post
"Such care and compassion?"

I hate to side with the military guys on this one MOKE, but they pay for your training, roof, meals, clothes and pay your salary after you sign up. At that point, their investment in you is for military purposes only. Yes, they want you to die for them. Care and compassion isn't part of the package.
There's some truth to that, but I'll guarantee you that the average military commander has more personal concern for his troops, beyond just bean counting, than the average supervisor in any private company. The depiction of heartless commanders makes good movie scripts but I know from personal experience that if you wanted to find the one area of society where the managers have to least concern about their people it would be Hollywood.

And as far as "wanting them to die" don't forget that it's the Bushes and Clintons and Roosevelts and Johnsons and Catros and Htilers and Stalins and Churchills of the world who are the ones who send them out to die. There's always more enthusiasm for war in the press and the political offices than there is in the Pentagon. It's just that the politicians and reporters lose their enthusiasm when things don't go easily and then the troops are left holding the bag and getting filthy shythole movies made about them by the cokeheads in Hollywood.

I'll stop now before I get in trouble for wishing that the people who made "Stop Loss" spend a couple months under the Taliban.
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Old 04-19-2009, 05:48 PM   #26
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Strictly speaking the object is to make the other guy die for his country.....
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Old 04-21-2009, 10:17 AM   #27
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Actually I think suicide by vehicle is much higher than recorded in and out of military.
Suicide is up in military. From Chi Tribune, March 2008

Earlier this year [2008], Lt. Gen. Michael Rochelle, the deputy chief of staff for personnel, directed a complete review of the Army's suicide prevention program, according to the Army's Web site. He called for a campaign that would make use of the best available science, and would raise awareness of the problem.

"Since the beginning of the global war on terror, the Army has lost over 580 soldiers to suicide, an equivalent of an entire infantry battalion task force," the Army said in a suicide prevention guide to installations and units that was posted in mid-March on the site.

"This ranks as the fourth leading manner of death for soldiers, exceeded only by hostile fire, accidents and illnesses," it said. "Even more startling is that during this same period, 10 to 20 times as many soldiers have thought to harm themselves or attempted suicide."

The numbers kept by the Army only show part of the picture because they don't include guard and reserve troops who have finished their active duty and returned home to their civilian jobs.

The Department of Veterans Affairs tracks the number of suicides among those who have left the military. It says there have been 144 suicides among the nearly 500,000 service members who left the military from 2002-2005 after fighting in at least one of the wars.
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Old 04-21-2009, 10:22 AM   #28
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At much higher rates than general pop. ....

THE US military is experiencing a "suicide epidemic" with veterans killing themselves at the rate of 120 a week, according to an investigation by US television network CBS.

At least 6256 US veterans committed suicide in 2005 - an average of 17 a day - the network reported, with veterans overall more than twice as likely to take their own lives as the rest of the general population.

While the suicide rate among the general population was 8.9 per 100,000, the level among veterans was between 18.7 and 20.8 per 100,000.

That figure rose to 22.9 to 31.9 suicides per 100,000 among veterans aged 20 to 24 - almost four times the non-veteran average for the age group.

"Those numbers clearly show an epidemic of mental health problems,'' CBS quoted veterans' rights advocate Paul Sullivan as saying.
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Old 04-21-2009, 10:26 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pplassm View Post
????? Where did you hear that? MoveOn.org? I still work with people in the know, and the word is that suicide is at the same rate as the general population.
Dr. Steve Rathburn is the acting head of the biostatistics department at the University of Georgia. CBS News asked him to run a detailed analysis of the raw numbers that we obtained from state authorities for 2004 and 2005.

It found that veterans were more than twice as likely to commit suicide in 2005 than non-vets. (Veterans committed suicide at the rate of between 18.7 to 20.8 per 100,000, compared to other Americans, who did so at the rate of 8.9 per 100,000.)

One age group stood out. Veterans aged 20 through 24, those who have served during the war on terror. They had the highest suicide rate among all veterans, estimated between two and four times higher than civilians the same age. (The suicide rate for non-veterans is 8.3 per 100,000, while the rate for veterans was found to be between 22.9 and 31.9 per 100,000.)

Suicide by Sportbike doesn't sound so unreasonable if you look at real numbers
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Old 04-21-2009, 11:33 AM   #30
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It appears I am behind the times.
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