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Old 03-08-2009, 03:52 PM   #21
The_AirHawk
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Originally Posted by seruzawa View Post
You've let the dirty little truth out of the bag. All racing rules are entirely arbitrary. There's no mandate from heaven that specifies displacement limits, engine configurations or any other set of rules.
W-W-WhaaaAAAAAAAt? Are you saying, God Hisself didn't declare each displacement/engine-configuration category?

LIAR!

BLASPHEMER!
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Old 03-08-2009, 04:15 PM   #22
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You've let the dirty little truth out of the bag. All racing rules are entirely arbitrary. There's no mandate from heaven that specifies displacement limits, engine configurations or any other set of rules.
You know, there does have to be some kind of rules to keep roughly equal bikes within the same class, but not to the extent that we have virtually identical bikes with different logos stuck to them. I want to see fair racing but different engineering solutions make things interesting.

It's really all about balancing the advantages and disadvantages of different configurations.

That said, while I really enjoyed seeing several different brands up front in the Daytona 200, I'm not sure allowing the Buell and the Aprilia to run against supersports is fair. I still don't have a grasp of the rules in Daytona Sportbike. (Does anyone here know the regs specific to engine type/displacement?) Sure, the 600s probably handle better and are a bit lighter, but the Buell has a waaayyy bigger engine. The factory supersports will still win most of the time because they have much bigger budgets and generally better riders, but that really isn't the point, is it?

Eslick might have won it if not for that weird bodywork problem. He came from something like two laps back and still finished 13th or 14th.
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Old 03-08-2009, 04:18 PM   #23
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I may be down 50cc, but my 83 maxim 550 is cool.........anybody wanna race ?......
550 Maxim? No thanks. 550 Seca? Better.. 650 Seca? Better yet!
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Old 03-08-2009, 05:06 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by pdad13 View Post
You know, there does have to be some kind of rules to keep roughly equal bikes within the same class, but not to the extent that we have virtually identical bikes with different logos stuck to them. I want to see fair racing but different engineering solutions make things interesting.

It's really all about balancing the advantages and disadvantages of different configurations.

That said, while I really enjoyed seeing several different brands up front in the Daytona 200, I'm not sure allowing the Buell and the Aprilia to run against supersports is fair. I still don't have a grasp of the rules in Daytona Sportbike. (Does anyone here know the regs specific to engine type/displacement?) Sure, the 600s probably handle better and are a bit lighter, but the Buell has a waaayyy bigger engine. The factory supersports will still win most of the time because they have much bigger budgets and generally better riders, but that really isn't the point, is it?

Eslick might have won it if not for that weird bodywork problem. He came from something like two laps back and still finished 13th or 14th.
Superbike racing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Following Daytona Motorsports Group's purchase of the rights to AMA Pro Racing, a dispute began over class structure. Daytona Motorsports Group plans to replace the Superbike class with a new class called "Daytona Superbike".[1] This class will feature no maxiumum engine displacement or minimum weight, only a a maximum power to weight ratio. Dissapointed with the new class structure, manufacturer supported teams have joined a new breakaway series called United States Superbike. The new series plans to begin operations in 2009"

hmmm....
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Old 03-08-2009, 05:39 PM   #25
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Default Eslick disqualified

Eslick was disqualified for "passing multiple riders during safety car laps".
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Old 03-08-2009, 05:48 PM   #26
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550 Maxim? No thanks. 550 Seca? Better.. 650 Seca? Better yet!
When I was a kid, the bike I really wanted was the Yamaha Seca. Now, I'm a little bigger and still like that style of bike (nakeds).

BTW, what was the largest size Seca or Seca II available in the US?
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Old 03-08-2009, 05:51 PM   #27
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Eslick was disqualified for "passing multiple riders during safety car laps".
Well, that would explain a lot. I guess H-D couldn't get a rule passed allowing the Buells to run under green in perpetuity.

I just looked up the rules. Twins have a 20 lb. higher minimum weight. Not sure that evens the playing field enough.

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Old 03-08-2009, 06:12 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by pdad13 View Post
You know, there does have to be some kind of rules to keep roughly equal bikes within the same class, but not to the extent that we have virtually identical bikes with different logos stuck to them. I want to see fair racing but different engineering solutions make things interesting.

It's really all about balancing the advantages and disadvantages of different configurations.

That said, while I really enjoyed seeing several different brands up front in the Daytona 200, I'm not sure allowing the Buell and the Aprilia to run against supersports is fair. I still don't have a grasp of the rules in Daytona Sportbike. (Does anyone here know the regs specific to engine type/displacement?) Sure, the 600s probably handle better and are a bit lighter, but the Buell has a waaayyy bigger engine. The factory supersports will still win most of the time because they have much bigger budgets and generally better riders, but that really isn't the point, is it?

Eslick might have won it if not for that weird bodywork problem. He came from something like two laps back and still finished 13th or 14th.
Well, yeah, you should shoot for some fairness but the more wealthy sponsors usually get more fairness.

The bikes probably have similar hp numbers. Either way AMA racing could continue to cater to the Big4 and disappear or they can put some life in it and generate some interest. I still think that a 5th place for a recent bike like the Buell is not a bad showing.

My original comment was pointed at the liars who claimed they would buy an American sportbike if it had a "proper" engine. Now that it does they are coming up with other excuses, i.e. "the 1125 races against a 600 I-4". I'm sure there will be plenty more.
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Old 03-08-2009, 06:54 PM   #29
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Well, that would explain a lot. I guess H-D couldn't get a rule passed allowing the Buells to run under green in perpetuity.

I just looked up the rules. Twins have a 20 lb. higher minimum weight. Not sure that evens the playing field enough.
Given the huge displacement advantage, there will be some point in which the Buells will win races. Then Roger and DMG will change the rules in the hopes of parity, just like NASCAR.


I sat next to Miguel Duhamel on the flight home from Daytona today. Whaddaya say we take up a collection and get him on a Buell?! Still one of the toughest and coolest racers ever.
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Old 03-08-2009, 07:56 PM   #30
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My original comment was pointed at the liars who claimed they would buy an American sportbike if it had a "proper" engine. Now that it does they are coming up with other excuses, i.e. "the 1125 races against a 600 I-4". I'm sure there will be plenty more.
Well, I have my own theory as to why the 1125R hasn't set the world on fire yet, which touches on three points: 1.) Buell made a mistake by releasing the bike to the press before it was fully baked. 2.) The spec sheet junkies and others were expecting an American 1098, which it's not. 3.) It's not exactly pretty.

The easiest point to fix, which probably would have the most immediate impact, is #3. An 1125RR with revised styling would probably do better. Whether it would actually make a better road bike is another question.

There's another issue that's worth exploring: Long before the 1125R was released, we had a discussion after I reported on my weekend with a rented XB12R. I said that I didn't think that Buell would ever use an non-U.S.-outsourced engine because it would effectively kill the all-American positioning. I was wrong (and very surprised when they announced the 1125R).

I wonder if that has also had a significant negative effect, given that many people were disappointed--presumably some of the people who were clamoring for an "American" sportbike--that Rotax built the engine.

Of course, possibly the biggest problem has nothing to do with the bike itself. It's the fact that Buells are still sold primarily through H-D dealers. That was a bad strategy from the beginning.
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