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-   -   2009 Supersport Racetrack Shootout (http://www.motorcycle.com/forum/motorcycle-general-discussion/11017-2009-supersport-racetrack-shootout.html)

anrajala 03-08-2009 06:40 AM

675 at halfway house
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pdad13 (Post 206501)
We've already been over this.

Apparently, the Triumph wasn't available early enough to make this test. Duke and MO have already confirmed that the winner of the 600 comparo (the ZX-6R) will go against the Daytona next month. The Duc 848 doesn't really belong in this group.

Duc doesn't belong in this group you got that right. But Triumph doesn't either.

At closer inspection a keen eye might notice that it has bigger engine. It is at half way mark between traditional 600 and 750 classes. In fact it is relatively speaking closer to 750 so it should rather be compared to them. If you did anything that silly it would raise global warming couple of degrees.

As for those limey bastards I have felt tremedous respect ever since they wheeled out the Rocket. I have even almost forgiven them producing the Vauxhall Viva. And how about the 1600 cc parallel twin Thunderbird. Talk about thinking outside the box.

- cruiz-euro

Buzglyd 03-08-2009 08:11 AM

Maybe MO could do an ignored shootout.

pdad13 03-08-2009 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anrajala (Post 206589)
Duc doesn't belong in this group you got that right. But Triumph doesn't either.

At closer inspection a keen eye might notice that it has bigger engine. It is at half way mark between traditional 600 and 750 classes. In fact it is relatively speaking closer to 750 so it should rather be compared to them. If you did anything that silly it would raise global warming couple of degrees.

As for those limey bastards I have felt tremedous respect ever since they wheeled out the Rocket. I have even almost forgiven them producing the Vauxhall Viva. And how about the 1600 cc parallel twin Thunderbird. Talk about thinking outside the box.

- cruiz-euro

Perhaps it's you that isn't really paying attention. The Triumph also has one less cylinder, so your displacement argument doesn't hold up. A 600cc four and a 675cc triple pump about the same amount of air, so are comparable. That's why they're in the same class in every major racing series with exception of AMA Supersport, which was basically dictated by the Big Four.

Still with me, cupcake?

The reason why the Duc doesn't belong is not because it has more displacement, it's because it has so much more. A 750cc water-cooled twin (like the old 748/749) is comparable to a 600-four and a 675-triple, which is what most racing rules dictate. The 848 is a reach too far.

I love the 848 and am glad that Ducati makes it. In fact, I seriously considered buying one, but it sits outside the traditional middleweight class.

That said, I would love to see another comparison pitting the new 675, 750, and 848 against each other to determine which is the best overall bike.

anrajala 03-08-2009 10:53 AM

Moto2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pdad13 (Post 206594)
Perhaps it's you that isn't really paying attention. The Triumph also has one less cylinder, so your displacement argument doesn't hold up. A 600cc four and a 675cc triple pump about the same amount of air, so are comparable. That's why they're in the same class in every major racing series with exception of AMA Supersport, which was basically dictated by the Big Four.

Still with me, cupcake?

Didn't we argue about this already few years back? Anyways I am sure there are racing series somewhere, probably in Boise Idaho, which allows 675 cc triples to race in the class of 600 cc. Nevertheless, where it really matters it is not so.

Moto GP is introducing the class of 600 "Moto2" and the rules are clear: 600 cc max. Triple is allowed to have weight advantage of 5 kg - I wish Triumph good luck. I have a soft spot for them, pansy socialist limeys or not they have brought some substantial new iron for the cruiserdom.

- cupcake

newagetwotone 03-08-2009 11:16 AM


GSXRWolf 03-08-2009 12:05 PM

Pumping Air
 
Apparently Ben Bostrom's Yamaha YZF-R6 was able to pump enough air to finish the Daytona 200 ahead of several larger displacement bikes.

Dr_Sprocket 03-08-2009 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdad13 (Post 206594)
That said, I would love to see another comparison pitting the new 675, 750, and 848 against each other to determine which is the best overall bike.

Hmmm. That would be an interesting shootout. Street and racetrack, right?

BrowningBAR 03-08-2009 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anrajala (Post 206597)
Didn't we argue about this already few years back? Anyways I am sure there are racing series somewhere, probably in Boise Idaho, which allows 675 cc triples to race in the class of 600 cc. Nevertheless, where it really matters it is not so.

Moto GP is introducing the class of 600 "Moto2" and the rules are clear: 600 cc max. Triple is allowed to have weight advantage of 5 kg - I wish Triumph good luck. I have a soft spot for them, pansy socialist limeys or not they have brought some substantial new iron for the cruiserdom.

- cupcake


You are tha Cal Ripken Jr. of stupid posts.

pdad13 03-08-2009 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anrajala (Post 206597)
Didn't we argue about this already few years back? Anyways I am sure there are racing series somewhere, probably in Boise Idaho, which allows 675 cc triples to race in the class of 600 cc. Nevertheless, where it really matters it is not so.

Moto GP is introducing the class of 600 "Moto2" and the rules are clear: 600 cc max. Triple is allowed to have weight advantage of 5 kg - I wish Triumph good luck. I have a soft spot for them, pansy socialist limeys or not they have brought some substantial new iron for the cruiserdom.

- cupcake

Yes, that racing series is called World Supersport. And the there's one called British Supersport. And German Supersport. And just about all the other major European national production bike series. Do you just make stuff up as you go along?

The 600cc rule that used to prevalent in production series was in place because all of the major manufacturers only used to make 600cc fours. It was basically a "de facto" regulation (look it up), not because it was an engineering truth. It was arbitrary, genius. Then Ducati was allowed to run its 750 twin because it was deemed roughly equal to the 600s. The 675 triple perfectly splits the difference between those two types of engines.

Moto2 (and MotoGP) has its own rules. So what? It's supposedly a prototype series, but it's meant to keep costs down by using production engines while also providing a marketing link to production 600s. They really only want one type of engine. I'm pretty sure Triumph isn't going to be involved anyway, so Dorna and the manufacturers have a vested interest in pushing 600cc fours. It has nothing to do with engineering or competitive fairness.

seruzawa 03-08-2009 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdad13 (Post 206609)
Yes, that racing series is called World Supersport. And the there's one called British Supersport. And German Supersport. And just about all the other major European national production bike series. Do you just make stuff up as you go along?

The 600cc rule that used to prevalent in production series was in place because all of the major manufacturers only used to make 600cc fours. It was basically a "de facto" regulation (look it up), not because it was an engineering truth. It was arbitrary, genius. Then Ducati was allowed to run its 750 twin because it was deemed roughly equal to the 600s. The 675 triple perfectly splits the difference between those two types of engines.

Moto2 (and MotoGP) has its own rules. So what? It's supposedly a prototype series, but it's meant to keep costs down by using production engines while also providing a marketing link to production 600s. They really only want one type of engine. I'm pretty sure Triumph isn't going to be involved anyway, so Dorna and the manufacturers have a vested interest in pushing 600cc fours. It has nothing to do with engineering or competitive fairness.

You've let the dirty little truth out of the bag. All racing rules are entirely arbitrary. There's no mandate from heaven that specifies displacement limits, engine configurations or any other set of rules.


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