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-   -   Natural progression... (http://www.motorcycle.com/forum/motorcycle-general-discussion/10680-natural-progression.html)

newagetwotone 02-11-2009 06:22 PM

Natural progression...
 
Something I hadn't though of before, but recently there was a post that caused quite a stir *cough...cough*

What is the natural progression. Lets say you have someone starting on a 650 twin (SV650, Ninja 650 you choose) what is the natural progression? Personally it seems there are two, either a 600 four cylinder supersport OR a Vtwin liter bike. Which is "safer" (yea i know i know, any bike is safe, all bikes and dangerous ect) something like a CBR600 or a buell firebolt, SV1000 or ZX-6?

No, not trying to start a fight, just wondering what the actual opinions on this are, since the last thread turned into a.... erm, nevermind. Anyways, thoughts? It honestly seems that the choice of a second bike, after having your bike a year or maybe two, is just as important as your first choice that we get people asking about all the time.

longride 02-11-2009 06:29 PM

I would think it depends on the skill and needs of a particular rider. Some guys can get a race replica for their second bike and not have a problem, and some should take up golf after thier first bike. No right answer here.

Kenneth_Moore 02-11-2009 06:59 PM

My first three bikes came along by fate; the Yamaha because a guy traded it for my Healey, a CB 550 because a guy needed his boat fixed, and the FXS because my brother in law was a Shovelhead mechanic who told me he'd build me a bike. Actually the 4th was fate too; the Concours came along because a guy at work had a friend die riding and wanted to unload it for $900. The VStrom is the 1st time after all these years I actually went out and looked at the market and tried to find something to fit my needs.

I think everyone needs at least 3 bikes, preferably 4 or 5. A little 250 to wail around on at max RPM, a stupid-fast SportRRRR, a big touring rig with a toaster-oven, a classic or two to putz around with restoring, a dirt bike for those so inclined, and a sidecar rig...just because.

MadScientistMatt 02-11-2009 07:29 PM

Funny you'd mention this now...

Quote:

Originally Posted by newagetwotone (Post 204164)
What is the natural progression. Lets say you have someone starting on a 650 twin (SV650, Ninja 650 you choose) what is the natural progression? Personally it seems there are two, either a 600 four cylinder supersport OR a Vtwin liter bike. Which is "safer" (yea i know i know, any bike is safe, all bikes and dangerous ect) something like a CBR600 or a buell firebolt, SV1000 or ZX-6?

I'm not entirely sure there is such a thing as a standard natural progression. I've got a GS500F (my second bike - first was a junker that I got to see if I liked riding or not) and have been riding over two years now. And I'm thinking of getting my third bike. If I were just trying to get more speed, without getting in over my head, I'd probably get a 600 cc four. Only... that's not really what I want.

The way I see it, I still haven't truly mastered riding a 500. I get myself in trouble attempting to drive a Corvette around a race course at speed, and it's slower and got four wheels. I have no illusions that I'd be able to push a 500 to a fraction of its capabilities at Road Atlanta. So if I just wanted to go fast, I'd safety wire up my GS500 and add whatever other safety mods I needed, and hit the track. It'll probably be a while before I could handle more.

What I have been thinking I could use would be a somewhat more stretched out riding position, a better choice of aftermarket seats, maybe some passenger carrying ability if I could convince Mrs. Mad Scientist to ride with me. I want a bike that doesn't start to get uncomfortable after two hours in the saddle. But I still want light weight and good handling. So for me, I've been wondering if the natural progression might be to a Ninja 650, or a Buell Ulysses, or an FZ6, or maybe even a Sportster or a KLR650.

I could say, "I've got enough speed as it is," but that's not true. Instead, it would be more accurate to say that I don't have as much riding skill as I'd like to push the bike I have to its limits.

newagetwotone 02-11-2009 08:17 PM

Thats an interested problem. Honestly riding trails (for those of you how don't know I havn't had the chance to ride on the road due to.... physical limitations) I never had much time off of my old 1972 Honda CL100, it was a blast and its top speed was about 55. all what 8 hp? I did ride a couple of 250 2-strokes over the years but always preferred my little 100

Dr_Sprocket 02-11-2009 08:36 PM

50% Rule
 
I have no evidence to back this up, but for me the "50% Rule" is a good guideline. The "50% Rule" implies that a rider should NOT upgrade to a bike that has greater than 50% more power than the bike they currently own.

Example: My first bike was a Honda CB700SC bringing in about 60hp. By the 50% rule, my second bike should have no more than 90hp. My Ulysses has 84 rwhp (although Buell claims 103hp). This bike would fall within the 50% rule.

For someone who has a GS500F that makes about 50hp (I think), a logical next step might be an Aprilia Shiver (or Dorsoduro) that makes about 75 rwhp or Buell CityX at 75 rwhp. Of course, as Longride points out, it also depends on the rider. Some people naturally learn more quickly than others, and some have more self control and restraint than others.

MOKE1K 02-11-2009 08:45 PM

I dont think theres one formula for everyone I think different riders want and need different things out of their riding. As stated, some progress faster than others, and well some, will never progress at all, uh um.

The_AirHawk 02-11-2009 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newagetwotone (Post 204173)
Thats an interested problem. Honestly riding trails (for those of you how don't know I havn't had the chance to ride on the road due to.... physical limitations) I never had much time off of my old 1972 Honda CL100, it was a blast and its top speed was about 55. all what 8 hp? I did ride a couple of 250 2-strokes over the years but always preferred my little 100

HaHa! First bike! I absolutely loved my '71 CL. It was also the first bike I ever broke, and the first bike I ever fixed on my own. I swear to God I'd still have it, if it hadn't been....... I'm not going to relate the loss of it, I'll just get too F'n Pyssed, even after near 20 years...........

seruzawa 02-11-2009 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Sprocket (Post 204176)
I have no evidence to back this up, but for me the "50% Rule" is a good guideline. The "50% Rule" implies that a rider should NOT upgrade to a bike that has greater than 50% more power than the bike they currently own.

Example: My first bike was a Honda CB700SC bringing in about 60hp. By the 50% rule, my second bike should have no more than 90hp. My Ulysses has 84 rwhp (although Buell claims 103hp). This bike would fall within the 50% rule.

For someone who has a GS500F that makes about 50hp (I think), a logical next step might be an Aprilia Shiver (or Dorsoduro) that makes about 75 rwhp or Buell CityX at 75 rwhp. Of course, as Longride points out, it also depends on the rider. Some people naturally learn more quickly than others, and some have more self control and restraint than others.

Whoops.

Bike #1. Honda Cub 4.5hp

Bike #2. Kawasaki W2SS-650 45hp.

Actually it's not a natural progression, it's a natural selection. Sure, one is better off starting on a smaller Bike. But it's a self-regulating function. An idiot will go for an R1 as a first bike and kill himself. But, being an idiot he'd most likely kill himself on a Ninja250 also. A wiser person will make the wiser choice. But he'd likely survive a bad choice.

Rule #1 of Motorcycle riding: If you are an idiot DON'T.

newagetwotone 02-11-2009 10:13 PM

Yea i loved that bike, it stopped running when i was a kid and my cousin drove it with out oil in it and it died... so i went behind my grandfathers back when he told me i wasn't aloud to do anything on it and snuck in the shed after dark and fixed it, didn't need much to get it running again, he had all the parts and tools.

The day i came tearing out of the shed on it at dusk my grandfather and dad just stared at me and said "i thought we told you no?" Road it till the enging blew this time, now after sitting it needs a throttle and the electronics redone again and just isn't worth it... so sad. It put me through all 4 of my face/head meets something hard like a tree, a rock, dirt, ect. crashs and more dirt trail lowsides than i want to remember.


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