2009 Luxury Touring Shootout

[Dr_Sprocket]

Originally Posted by seruzawa

You have to hand it to the Finlandia people though. They've convinced huge numbers of people that their expensive distilled potatoes are better than the $4 brand.

You mean it's not?

[smithe68]

Originally Posted by Kevin_Duke

Cause we wanted max luxury. The non-CVO E-Glide woulda fared worse, and the lower output of its smaller engine would have been really outclassed.

It's really too bad, the HD is a good looking bike, but even after thousands of dollars of engine mods, it's still "really outclassed".

Another note on the review, and so many other reviews for that matter. Rider room is rarely addressed it seems, at 6'3", only the Vision is even remotely comfortable, or roomy enough to consider.

[rvfrules]

Originally Posted by smithe68

Why compare the CVO in this group? Why wouldn't you compare apples to apples and put in the Ultra Classic without all the bling in this comparison?

That's what I was going to say! The standard Ultra might lack the cosmetic bling of the CVO but it has plenty of practical features on it and its far lower price makes it much more competitive with the GW and Victory. I've got an '09 FLHR and find the clutch pull to be very light.

[Chief Waldo]

Originally Posted by administrator

Original Article:
2009 Luxury Touring Shootout

Please discuss the Motorcycle.com article 2009 Luxury Touring Shootout in our Motorcycle Forums below. Use the reply button to let others know your comments or feedback on the article. Constructive criticism is always appreciated, along with your thoughts and personal opinions on the bikes and products we have tested.

From the article:
"then again the Vision doesn’t offer ABS, let alone linked braking."

The Vision comes standard with linked braking. The front brakes have a six piston caliper system The front control operates four of the pistons. The rear brake pedal operates a linked system consisting of the rear caliper and two pistons of the front caliper. It has a pressure valve, so that if the rear brake pedal is gently applied, it operates the rear only. As firmer the pressure applied to the rear pedal, more braking force is allowed to be applied to the front brakes.
That would probably explain the writer's comment:
"quick stops are only made when activating the rear brake pedal".

[Pete_Brissette]

Originally Posted by Chief Waldo

From the article:
"then again the Vision doesn’t offer ABS, let alone linked braking."

The Vision comes standard with linked braking. The front brakes have a six piston caliper system The front control operates four of the pistons. The rear brake pedal operates a linked system consisting of the rear caliper and two pistons of the front caliper. It has a pressure valve, so that if the rear brake pedal is gently applied, it operates the rear only. As firmer the pressure applied to the rear pedal, more braking force is allowed to be applied to the front brakes.
That would probably explain the writer's comment:
"quick stops are only made when activating the rear brake pedal".

We're hesitant to refer to what you've indicated (with detail rarely seen anywhere, btw!) on the Victory as a linked system in the sense of Honda's LBS or CBS (Combined Braking System) as they now refer to it. With the Honda system (a system most people reference when discussing linked braking and what has unofficially become something of a standard), the rear brake is applied when applying front brake and vice versa, though full front isn't applied via the rear brake. Ergo, a truly linked system.

Also, I'd be cautious in the way you've phrased the Vision's brake system as a "six piston caliper system." Victory only refers to it as a three-piston caliper. Likely you're thinking but not stating that you included both calipers. Seems trite to point that out, but you'd be surprised how many people would misinterpret that as six pistons per caliper.

The process, or rather amount of pressure needed to activate and then applied by the rear brake is somewhat vague, even by Victory's own words from our First Ride of the Vision: "... Under mild to heavy rear braking, a “slight degree” of front brake is hydraulically activated..."

What do you suppose Victory meant when they told the press a "slight degree" of front brake is applied, and how many different ways do you suppose different people, including yourself, would define "mild to heavy?"

Finally, though this "integrated" systems exists, Victory does little if anything to promote it. Honda on the other hand...

Thanks for bringing this up for a good discussion!

[sarnali2]

Originally Posted by seruzawa

Vodka? You're off the Bushmills?

I don't believe it.

You have to hand it to the Finlandia people though. They've convinced huge numbers of people that their expensive distilled potatoes are better than the $4 brand.

Now excuse me while I get back to my brother-in-law's excellent martinis.

God forbid ! though I usually drink Jamesons now a days I'm still a confirmed Whisky drinker...

The Finlandia was for my g/f who prefers vodka, I usually get Stolichnya but the likka' sto' was out so I figured Finlands right next door right?... big mistake! I havn't suffered like that since I was a squid.

I did manage to wash last year road crud off my 'Lectra Glide though and was reminded once again why I love it so.. the same comfort as an Ultra with 100 lbs less weight and extra's I don't want or need and all the functional stuff like ABS and cruise still encluded for $5k less....Pretty tough deal to beat IMO

[Kenneth_Moore]

Originally Posted by longride

I didn't want to mention the Victory 'Bad Vision' too much, but anyone that says those things are better looking in person than they are in pictures needs to see an optometrist ASAP.

I'm one of those; when the first photos came out, I couldn't believe Victory was serious. But I think they do look better in person, particularly without the top case. Note the word better, it's still not a bike I'd buy based on appearance. To be fair, the BMW K1200LT is every bit as ugly, but it looks better in photos than it does in real life.

[Dr_Sprocket]

I'm on board with the Vision styling. It's nice to see something NOT a Harley clone. I think it is retro cool - more stylish that the Honda Oldwing.

[Chief Waldo]

Originally Posted by Pete_Brissette

We're hesitant to refer to what you've indicated (with detail rarely seen anywhere, btw!) on the Victory as a linked system in the sense of Honda's LBS or CBS (Combined Braking System) as they now refer to it. With the Honda system (a system most people reference when discussing linked braking and what has unofficially become something of a standard), the rear brake is applied when applying front brake and vice versa, though full front isn't applied via the rear brake. Ergo, a truly linked system.

Also, I'd be cautious in the way you've phrased the Vision's brake system as a "six piston caliper system." Victory only refers to it as a three-piston caliper. Likely you're thinking but not stating that you included both calipers. Seems trite to point that out, but you'd be surprised how many people would misinterpret that as six pistons per caliper.

The process, or rather amount of pressure needed to activate and then applied by the rear brake is somewhat vague, even by Victory's own words from our First Ride of the Vision: "... Under mild to heavy rear braking, a “slight degree” of front brake is hydraulically activated..."

What do you suppose Victory meant when they told the press a "slight degree" of front brake is applied, and how many different ways do you suppose different people, including yourself, would define "mild to heavy?"

Finally, though this "integrated" systems exists, Victory does little if anything to promote it. Honda on the other hand...

Thanks for bringing this up for a good discussion!

Maybe I misread the story, but I don't remember the clarification of "a linked system in the sense of Honda's LBS or CBS (Combined Braking System) as they now refer to it." in the story itself. My point being, the rear brake control WILL apply the front brake. Therefore it is a linked system. It might not be what Honda or other companies offer, but it is a linked system in its own right, and it's unfair to deny its existence.

I agree with your clarification concerning the number of pistons of the front brakes. It is a two rotor system, each with a three piston caliper. If you look closely at each of those calipers, you will see two hydraulic lines going to them, One from the front brake control, one from the rear.

As far as what I suppose Victory meant when they told the press a "slight degree" of front brake is applied" Well, I wouldn't doubt that since it IS a different system than Honda's, they were careful in their selection of words so that riders wouldn't use one brake control exclusively, while doing the test ride, and also, having dealt with the press before, maybe they just don't trust writers' judgment when it comes to experimenting with a "different type" of linked braking system on "someone else's" bikes.

According to what I've read, Victory did a lot of communication with its riders in developing the brake system for the Vision, which is why they developed the "rear control only" linked system and why they decided not to have ABS. Apparently, their riders told them that ABS isn't too important to them.

Edit: As I think about it, if Honda has a copyright on "Linked Braking System", "LBS", "Combined Braking System", and "CBS", and other companies have their own copyrighted terms, maybe Victory just didn't want to fight that battle, so it didn't give its system a name at all...

[Buzglyd]

Originally Posted by Chief Waldo

Maybe I misread the story, but I don't remember the clarification of "a linked system in the sense of Honda's LBS or CBS (Combined Braking System) as they now refer to it." in the story itself. My point being, the rear brake control WILL apply the front brake. Therefore it is a linked system. It might not be what Honda or other companies offer, but it is a linked system in its own right, and it's unfair to deny its existence.

snip

According to what I've read, Victory did a lot of communication with its riders in developing the brake system for the Vision, which is why they developed the "rear control only" linked system and why they decided not to have ABS. Apparently, their riders told them that ABS isn't too important to them.

Edit: As I think about it, if Honda has a copyright on "Linked Braking System", "LBS", "Combined Braking System", and "CBS", and other companies have their own copyrighted terms, maybe Victory just didn't want to fight that battle, so it didn't give its system a name at all...

According to what you've read? It sounds like you work for Victory bro. Either that or your really interested in linked braking systems.