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Old 09-18-2008, 06:32 PM   #21
Buzglyd
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Buzz, you can't deny reality. They're both private corporations, they have stockholders, they pay dividends, they have a Board of Directors, they sell a product, they are NOT a government agency.

As for the house flipping, anybody with half a brain knows you can't magically create a million dollars just because a price went up. The whole economy for the past years has been based on the absurd notion that real value is created from nothing...people were dumb to believe it for a second.

At least the .com boom had something behind it. Here we are, on the Web, buying everything from car insurance to motorcycle parts...real value was created there.
Well when the gov't underwrites you, you're not totally private.

And if they are, you buddy Obama got $126,000 from them to look the other way over the last two years to look the other way.

McCain got $22,00.

Can't deny that either.
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Old 09-19-2008, 04:44 AM   #22
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The government should NOT be bailing these companies out. Neither should they bail the millions of idiot homeowners that knew they coudn't afford the house they bought the day they bought it. There is an old saying that 'pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered'. These people should get slaughtered. They are all part and parcel of the same problem. The middle class was the biggest offender. everyone trying to make a quick buck on a house. Let the chips fall where they may. Why would anyone be cautious if the GOV was going to bail them? I sure as hell wouldn't. I should bet everything I own on the Bears next week. If they win, I'm sitting pretty, if they lose the GOV can come bail me out. Sickening. I wouldn't bail even one of these ba$tards.
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Old 09-19-2008, 05:40 AM   #23
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The government should NOT be bailing these companies out. Neither should they bail the millions of idiot homeowners that knew they coudn't afford the house they bought the day they bought it. There is an old saying that 'pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered'. These people should get slaughtered. They are all part and parcel of the same problem. The middle class was the biggest offender. everyone trying to make a quick buck on a hose. Let the chips fall where they may. Why would anyone be cautious if the GOV was going to bail them? I sure as hell wouldn't. I should bet everything I own on the Bears next week. If they win, I'm sitting pretty, if they lose the GOV can come bail me out. Sickening. I wouldn't bail even one of these ba$tards.
I actually agree with you, it's utterly outrageous that the stockholders and executives of this company who made millions during the so called "housing boom" are going to get bailed out and have their losses covered. It's the worst possible scenario of private corporate greed and government intervention to save the ill-gotten gains of corporate fat cats who should instead be facing criminal charges. Where I'm sure we disagree is that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac should have ever been privatized to begin with. LBJ did it in the '60s to raise money for Vietnam; the governement made billions selling the assets to the private investors. We probably disagree on this too: not everything should be privatized; when the profit model is applied to certain functions I don't think it's good for anyone. Police, Fire Departments, the military, and core national financial institutions like Fannie and Freddi belong in the public sector, in my opinion.

You're right, a lot of people were stupid to take loans and buy houses they couldn't afford. The "Flip this House" investors were another fine example of people thinking they can actually get something for nothing. On the other hand, there were a lot of decent people who were tricked by predatory lenders; nothing new there, scam artists have always been around, but when a guy is dealing with major banking institutions and the like, it's not a total shock that they'd get duped. The funny part is that some leading politicians were very happy to bail out the big banking corporations, but then said they didn't think the ordinary citizens who were sucked into the same fiasco didn't deserve help. One in particular was forced to change his opinion on the matter once he was confronted with the hipocracy.
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Old 09-19-2008, 05:59 AM   #24
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You are correct in what you say, but lots of 'little guys' made lots of money during this housing bubble too. They are many of the ones getting killed today. As for getting duped, caveat emptor is Latin for "Let the buyer beware". There is no 'duped' if you are over 21 in this country. To me' duped' means you lose. Too bad, so sad. No bailouts for anyone is my solution. I agree that the big guys get government handouts easily. That is because the GOV is bought and sold by these idiots, and I'll go as far as saying the most government officials have a heavy financial stake in these bailouts, and that means all of them from Bush to Pelosi. Funny how they all came together real quickly on this one when they argue and fight over everything else. Greenbacks are non-partisan. So the financially prudent like me and you get to pay for all this mess. Sounds like the ones that get 'duped' was us.
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Old 09-19-2008, 06:02 AM   #25
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Is the organization created to deal with the S&L still alive? I heard the acronym this morning but can't recall it.
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Old 09-19-2008, 06:28 AM   #26
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There are about 5 orgs that were created to deal with the S&L scandal of the 80's. Same shyt now, different day.
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Old 09-19-2008, 06:33 AM   #27
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You are correct in what you say, but lots of 'little guys' made lots of money during this housing bubble too. They are many of the ones getting killed today. As for getting duped, caveat emptor is Latin for "Let the buyer beware". There is no 'duped' if you are over 21 in this country. To me' duped' means you lose. Too bad, so sad. No bailouts for anyone is my solution. I agree that the big guys get government handouts easily. That is because the GOV is bought and sold by these idiots, and I'll go as far as saying the most government officials have a heavy financial stake in these bailouts, and that means all of them from Bush to Pelosi. Funny how they all came together real quickly on this one when they argue and fight over everything else. Greenbacks are non-partisan. So the financially prudent like me and you get to pay for all this mess. Sounds like the ones that get 'duped' was us.

Damn dude, I'm right with you on the lot of it today. With a little "bleeding heart liberal" sentiment for the families who may lose their homes, but for the most part, I couldn't have said it better
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Old 09-19-2008, 07:31 AM   #28
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The Fed has a stake in the "private" mortgage business and now the worlds largest insurance company AIG. Doesn't anyone see a problem with this? Freddie and Fannie were thick with Clinton cronies- so, you liberal whiners can't blame the republicans on this. They managed the situation badly and it is what it is. AIG took major losses backing the motgage industry and they got burned. Now, we're stuck paying taxpayer money for these companies. Execs get paid to be execs. Don't whine about the money. They worked their way to the top and they got compensated. Regardless of failure or success they were getting that check. Shareholders- THEY ARE YOU AND ME!. If you have a 401k then you have money at stake in all these players. We are not only losing money out of our 401k- we are paying to keep them in business. AIG is unique to Fannie and Freddie because they also buy and underwrite paper from other insurance companies. They replaced the failing CEO less than a year ago and the "new" guy hasn't had the time required to right the ship. Now, he's gone and the Fed replaced him with a former boss from Allstate. Allstate is 1/10th of the scope of what AIG does. Think this guy has the tools to right the ship?
In the 90's the Congress told the mortgage industry to make the loan process easier or they would regulate the industry to make it easier. Fifteen years later Congress says greed drove this train and the mortgage industry were the bad guys. Horsesh!t!!! Because the mortgage industry and the banking industry are tied the banks are selling off like hot cakes to any buyers willing to take on the debt. Soon the Fed will tip in on that. Meaning: the Fed will now be involved in the Housing, Insurance and Banking business. Our Government wasn't designed to do this. Marx's government was. The next step is to get into healthcare. Well, since they own an 80% stake into the AIG giant, why not branch out? Housing, Insurance, Banking, and Healthcare. Communist everywhere are laughing as we implode the very system that most of the free world try to emulate.
BTW- having a Marxist in the commander seat won't help this. Doesn't matter how nice and shiney the apple is if there are worms lurking within it's core. We are a capitalist. Are method of government was SUPPOSED to be local- unless it's during a time of war and congress granted additional powers to the Fed during such time. We are becoming the people (society) our parents and their parent were told and taught to distain. Our kids will see the freedoms as the generations before them. It's a sad time to be a US citizen.
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Old 09-19-2008, 07:38 AM   #29
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Which goes back to my original statment there there should be no bailouts by the Gov. If I lose my money, then poor me. Things will be bad in the short run, but I came from bad, so it wouldn't be all that big a deal to me. The long run would look much brighter without the bailouts. Let things free fall and it will be better than to prop it up with taxpayer money we will never get back.
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Old 09-19-2008, 08:21 AM   #30
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Which goes back to my original statment there there should be no bailouts by the Gov. If I lose my money, then poor me. Things will be bad in the short run, but I came from bad, so it wouldn't be all that big a deal to me. The long run would look much brighter without the bailouts. Let things free fall and it will be better than to prop it up with taxpayer money we will never get back.
I just don't understand why people are so blind to what's happening and going to happen as this all goes down. It's such a bad idea to help struggling, privately or publicly owned companies. Failure because of bad management practices is not a reason for goverment bailouts. If it were then you'd never see companies file bankruptcy. They'd just wait for the gov't cheese.
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