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Old 07-14-2008, 08:58 AM   #11
acecycleins
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Seems like in a past thread I brought up the oil in that territory and people thought I was full of horseshyt. If we exploited the resources there, in the Gulf and Alaska we'd see oil specutators vitually shut down.
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Old 07-14-2008, 01:50 PM   #12
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Hmmm.

Interesing article here:

The Oil Drum | The Bakken Formation: How Much Will It Help?
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Old 07-14-2008, 04:19 PM   #13
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A very interesting article Mr. Plassm. Although I'd be just as thrilled as everyone else if there was a giant, secret oil reserve sitting unexploited under the Rocky Mountains, the reality is a little grim. From the article, which, BTW, is based on US Geological Survey data:

"the USGS estimate that there are 3,649 million barrels of technically recoverable oil in the entire US Bakken accumulation."

3.6 million barrels isn't exactly 500 billion, or even "10%" of that.

You have to ask yourself when something like this comes along why would it be such a secret? No matter what your political perspective, there are interests on both sides of any story who are going to bring the truth to light. If you take the time to read just a few of the articles that come up when you Google the Bakken fields, you'll see that they consistently point out that the oil is there, but it's unrecoverable for a reasonable price.

The issue isn't if there is more oil in the world, the issue is if there is a significant amount of oil that is recoverable at a price we can afford to pay. If it costs $300 to recover a barrel of oil, what good is it? Maybe it's useful for plastics or other high value applications, but not to burn for fuel.

I say let's not be distracted. Oil is a dead end; we can't "drill our way out of this," so let's focus on meaningful alternatives that can be replenished, renewed, or are self-renewing, such as fusion reactors.

We probably have a window of time to react and change what we're doing today. We had a terrific opportunity in the 70's (I was there in the gas lines, I promise you, you don't want to try it) to create energy self sufficience. We've lost 3 decades, let's not lose any more time.
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Old 07-14-2008, 05:30 PM   #14
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I say let's not be distracted. Oil is a dead end; we can't "drill our way out of this," so let's focus on meaningful alternatives that can be replenished, renewed, or are self-renewing, such as fusion reactors.

We probably have a window of time to react and change what we're doing today. We had a terrific opportunity in the 70's (I was there in the gas lines, I promise you, you don't want to try it) to create energy self sufficience. We've lost 3 decades, let's not lose any more time.
Ken- the technology push to make "green" cars happen with more frequency is still a decade out. The cost of manufaturing the Prius is more than the retail. Toyota spends soooo much money on the bateries that is a loss leader for the company. I'm not saying that it can't be done. I'm saying that while we're learning and improving consumer products we should use the resources that are there. Oil is what's available. Let the industry decide if they can produce the product at a price that the consumer will buy. If they spend $300 a barrel and sell it for $100 because the market dictates the price then so be it. People are under the impression that "BIG" oil isn't looking into the future for products to sell to the consumer. What brain dead idiot really can believe that? These guys are all about the bottom line. If they can produce a synthetic equivalent and market it at a price that Joe Consumer will pay then bet on the fact that it will come to market. Something has to power our bikes and not all of us prefer to smell like a fry vat at McDonalds.
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Old 07-14-2008, 05:58 PM   #15
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Oil is what's available. Let the industry decide if they can produce the product at a price that the consumer will buy. If they spend $300 a barrel and sell it for $100 because the market dictates the price then so be it. People are under the impression that "BIG" oil isn't looking into the future for products to sell to the consumer. What brain dead idiot really can believe that? These guys are all about the bottom line. If they can produce a synthetic equivalent and market it at a price that Joe Consumer will pay then bet on the fact that it will come to market. Something has to power our bikes and not all of us prefer to smell like a fry vat at McDonalds.
Dammit Kirk, you contradict yourself: You suggest the oil companies will sell oil at a loss, and then two sentences later you say they're all about the bottom line. Right now, we, the consumers, have no choice. We're going to have to buy gas for whatever it costs, and as a result, we give up other things that add value to our lives. People are making those choices every day, including me. I'm not saying don't try to get the oil, or stop using oil. I'm saying there is not nearly enough work being done by anyone, ESPECIALLY the oil companies, to come up with alternative. Look at Chile, they got slapped in the 70's and decided to use sugar cane for fuel. They import NO OIL.

We have some efforts around to try to reduce our oil dependancy, but it's not enough. Mobil spent $10M on alternative energy in 2007. That's .0000000001% of their profits. Gee, that makes me feel great.

As for the Democrats wanting to turn us into a 3rd world country (who said that, Snarli?) BULL****! I'm the Democratic Party, my friend Gwen is the Democratic Party, and we're just as loyal and patriotic as any Republicans. And, we give a crap about the future, and we're interested in seeing our kids have a decent lifestyle like we enjoyed. Not living in oil profiteering induced poverty. You like the "Free Market?" The oil business is the most unfree, fixed, monopolistic cartel ever invented. You can't have a free market when you've only got one choice from a bunch of collaborating producers and distributors. When you can decide if you want to buy a bike that runs on XYZ or a bike that runs on petroleum, then you'll see free market and competitive pricing. You won't see it until that day I assure you. One drive by the gas station sign tells you everything you need to know. The gas that was worth selling for $3 a few months ago is now only worth selling for $4.50? Yeah...sure.

Thank you, I'll be on the box here all week unless you put some coins in the hat so I can buy gas to go home.
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Old 07-14-2008, 07:15 PM   #16
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Funny how your guys got control of congress 2 years ago and since then the real estate market tanked, stock market tanked and the price of oil sky rocketed.

Exxon is a public company Kmo. Just by some stock and you can get in on the big conspiracy.
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Old 07-14-2008, 07:20 PM   #17
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Funny how your guys got control of congress 2 years ago and since then the real estate market tanked, stock market tanked and the price of oil sky rocketed.

Exxon is a public company Kmo. Just by some stock and you can get in on the big conspiracy.
I forgot to mention that it's Brazil not Chile. The use of corn-based fuels here is causing huge problems the just imagine what's going to happen when the Amazon jungle is turned into sugar cane fields.

By the way, the Brazilians were recently thrilled to learn a huge oil field exists off its coast and the PM mentioned that OIL will now make Brazil a major player in the world.
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Old 07-14-2008, 07:26 PM   #18
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Free market? Funny you should mention that. I was listening to the radio about the bill that will go to the President very quickly regarding new legislation regulating mortages and loan. I guess it's only a free market until the business's get hurt then its the Gov't to the rescue.So maybe it's only the front half of a free market. Yeah I know it would get ugly, I was just thinking out loud. Hey wasn't there a Bush involved in testimony before Congress on the S and L bail out... giggle, snicker, giggle.

If the success of the market during the Clinton administration were due to the previous administration and the down turn of the market now is because of the Clinton administration how is it that the actions of the inactive, do nothing Congress, albeit [barely]controled by the dems capable of cause and effect in such a short period of time.

Now back to motorcycles.

Did you see how many new motorcycles and scooter were sold in India last year? People point to them and China as the new big players in the oil consumption game. We ain't seen nothing yet.
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Old 07-14-2008, 07:51 PM   #19
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I've really got to stop thinking that I've got something to say here. The articles a hoot. millidarcies indeed.
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Old 07-14-2008, 07:56 PM   #20
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Free market? Funny you should mention that. I was listening to the radio about the bill that will go to the President very quickly regarding new legislation regulating mortages and loan. I guess it's only a free market until the business's get hurt then its the Gov't to the rescue.So maybe it's only the front half of a free market. Yeah I know it would get ugly, I was just thinking out loud. Hey wasn't there a Bush involved in testimony before Congress on the S and L bail out... giggle, snicker, giggle.

If the success of the market during the Clinton administration were due to the previous administration and the down turn of the market now is because of the Clinton administration how is it that the actions of the inactive, do nothing Congress, albeit [barely]controled by the dems capable of cause and effect in such a short period of time.

Now back to motorcycles.

Did you see how many new motorcycles and scooter were sold in India last year? People point to them and China as the new big players in the oil consumption game. We ain't seen nothing yet.
It doesn't help that some of these countries subsidize the cost of fuel which makes it much cheaper and the usage above what would be normal.
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