Go Back   Motorcycle Forum > Other > Motorcycle.Com Lounge

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-04-2013, 01:54 PM   #1
schizuki
Founding Member
 
schizuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,030
Default Leaded gas caused crime wave?

Was the crime wave of the '60s - '80s fueled by leaded gasoline?

I never take post hoc ergo propter hoc at face value. But sometimes correlation really does imply causation. Poverty never explained it (people were poorer in the Depression). Roe v. Wade might explain the drop, but not the rise. There's definitely some food for thought here.

(PS - Ken, please note that I did not automatically take a contrarian anti-environmentalist stance of outright skepticism. Libertarians are open-minded, we're just not gullible. I'm open-minded enough to find this intriguing; I'm not gullible enough to believe in AGW).
__________________
Reverēre meam auctōritātem

Bill Clinton and Chuck Schumer are praising the Supreme Court for overturning an anti-gay-marriage law that they both signed.
schizuki is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links Remove Advertisements
Motorcycle Forum
Advertisement
Old 01-04-2013, 08:22 PM   #2
The_AirHawk
Founding Member
 
The_AirHawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Leanin' Tower O' P-P-P-P-POWAAAAAAAAA!!!!
Posts: 11,490
Default

I gotta admit, it had me going, nearly convinced. Until they pulled the N'awlinz Po' Folkz Statistic out of Mother Jones' ass:

Quote:
Location, Location, Location
In New Orleans, lead levels can vary dramatically from one neighborhood to the next—and the poorest neighborhoods tend to be the worst hit.
If this is supposed to be an AIRBORNE spread "disease", why is it that ONLY POOR PEOPLE are the ones suddenly "suffering from Tetraethyl-Lead poisoning"? EVERYONE in a given area breathes the same air (within reason) - it matters little the thickness of your wallet. Suddenly the lead-level in the soil in 2000 is equivalent to the numerical-level in your bank account in 2010.

Give me a ****ing break al****ingready.
__________________
Parfois, on fait pas semblant
Sometimes, it's not pretend
Oderint Dum Metuant
Let them hate so long as they fear
политики предпочитают безоружных крестьян
Politicians Prefer Unarmed Peasants
Nothing to see here, Citizen. Move along now...
The_AirHawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 01:19 PM   #3
sarnali2
Aging Cafe` Racer

 
sarnali2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sittin' down by my window, lookin' at the rain.
Posts: 8,719
Default

lead eating utensils contributed to the Romans downfall.....I'm sure there's a corrolation.
__________________
"Carpe` Throttelum -Loud Suits Save Lives"

"He said he's farting because of his medication"...
sarnali2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 06:06 PM   #4
The_AirHawk
Founding Member
 
The_AirHawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Leanin' Tower O' P-P-P-P-POWAAAAAAAAA!!!!
Posts: 11,490
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarnali2 View Post
lead eating utensils contributed to the Romans downfall.....I'm sure there's a corrolation.
Waddya talkin' about - some of those "leaded" water-pipes and cisterns are still in use today.

Granted, primarily for fountains and the like - but still servicable. Romans knew how to build, gotta grant them that.
__________________
Parfois, on fait pas semblant
Sometimes, it's not pretend
Oderint Dum Metuant
Let them hate so long as they fear
политики предпочитают безоружных крестьян
Politicians Prefer Unarmed Peasants
Nothing to see here, Citizen. Move along now...
The_AirHawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 06:07 AM   #5
The Spaceman
Registered Member
 
The Spaceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,448
Default

It is an interesting theory; and if true it certainly wouldn't be the first time a society has poisoned itself with terrible results. There's no doubt lead-based gasoline additives caused great harm; correlating them to a crime wave is another matter.

When I was in high-school and college I worked in a local gas station/repair shop afternoons and weekends. I was a family-run place with 6 auto bays. Two brothers and a full-time mechanic did any and all repairs, with lots of brake jobs, water pumps...the endless repairs that 60's and 70's US autos required after 12k miles.

Both brothers died quite young from cancer, and the full-time mechanic died a few years later. The wives of the two brothers also died at comparatively young ages. I think it was due to the asbestos; SOP when doing a brake job was to pull the drums and blast clouds of brake lining dust out with high-pressure air. Nobody thought twice about wearing any kind of dust masks etc. Also there was lots of skin exposure to other chemicals like brake fluid, gas, etc.
__________________
318 curves in 11 miles."

Last edited by The Spaceman : 01-07-2013 at 06:16 AM.
The Spaceman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 07:39 AM   #6
sarnali2
Aging Cafe` Racer

 
sarnali2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sittin' down by my window, lookin' at the rain.
Posts: 8,719
Default

Nasty business all the way around. Industry and the military started jumping on asbestos in the mid 70's, now unless I can personally varify a gasket is not asbestos containing material I have to get our asbestos crew to sample a piece before I can break a flange loose.

We and I'm sure Airhawks crew definately err on the side of caution and sample everything from gaskets to castable refractory which used to use asbestos as a binding agent, before we do anything. Lead based paint is the next big bugaboo for us.
__________________
"Carpe` Throttelum -Loud Suits Save Lives"

"He said he's farting because of his medication"...
sarnali2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 09:21 AM   #7
Buzglyd
Founding Member
 
Buzglyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,913
Default

I also recall during this same time period is when many states started enacting "three strikes and you're out" legislation.

Despite liberal wailing, the crime rate dropped dramatically. Even crooks get it after a while.
Buzglyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 04:20 PM   #8
The_AirHawk
Founding Member
 
The_AirHawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Leanin' Tower O' P-P-P-P-POWAAAAAAAAA!!!!
Posts: 11,490
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarnali2 View Post
Nasty business all the way around. Industry and the military started jumping on asbestos in the mid 70's, now unless I can personally varify a gasket is not asbestos containing material I have to get our asbestos crew to sample a piece before I can break a flange loose.

We and I'm sure Airhawks crew definately err on the side of caution and sample everything from gaskets to castable refractory which used to use asbestos as a binding agent, before we do anything. Lead based paint is the next big bugaboo for us.
All the old plants (anything built prior to 1990) have been tested (for my company), any Asbestos found is/was put "off limits" to so much as look cross-eyed at it. If it MUST be disturbed, it is a Capital Investment Request (CIR) and about a 3"-thick binder full of forms that have to be signed-off.

The reason it cost so much is, we MUST have a 3rd-party institute controls to prevent friable fibers from being introduced into the atmosphere - and they are unwilling to invest in training and equipment for us to handle asbestos.

All New Construction is built with a contractual-certification that NO Asbestos was used anywhere in the facility.

The last place I worked had 1/4" Tansite insulation on the ice-maker room walls - we painted it with 4 coats of epoxy paint, then had a contractor screw 1/2" plywood over the top of it (I would not have done that, myself) to cover it up.

I have no idea what they are doing about it now. Not my Refrigeration Plant any longer, the Mill I'm at was built in 2002.
__________________
Parfois, on fait pas semblant
Sometimes, it's not pretend
Oderint Dum Metuant
Let them hate so long as they fear
политики предпочитают безоружных крестьян
Politicians Prefer Unarmed Peasants
Nothing to see here, Citizen. Move along now...

Last edited by The_AirHawk : 01-07-2013 at 04:26 PM.
The_AirHawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 05:45 AM   #9
The Spaceman
Registered Member
 
The Spaceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,448
Default

And yet, after billions of dollars in clean-up costs, tens of thousands sick and dead from asbestos inhalation and contact, and WW Gay, once one of the world's largest construction companies bankrupted by it: Canada is still manufacturing the **** and selling it to the third world.

Perhaps they think they're helping by reducing their customer nation's overpopulation burden.
__________________
318 curves in 11 miles."
The Spaceman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 08:04 AM   #10
sarnali2
Aging Cafe` Racer

 
sarnali2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sittin' down by my window, lookin' at the rain.
Posts: 8,719
Default

The problem is if it's not friable it's safe and nothing works better for the cost as an insulator or binding agent.We have our own in-house asbestos crew here which will either abate the suspected area or encapsulate it, or they call in a contractor if it's a large area. This plant was built in the late 50's so it's pretty well permeated with it.

As I said, unless I can confirm a gasket isn't ACM, for example boiler drums and manways which use Hi Temp Neoprene and Kawool, or have already been abated, I include an assessment in every work order I write that will disturb lagging or flanges. I've been around it my entire working life so I get pretty anal about checking first before I let my crew tear into anything, I don't want to breath that crap anymore then I have already.
__________________
"Carpe` Throttelum -Loud Suits Save Lives"

"He said he's farting because of his medication"...

Last edited by sarnali2 : 01-08-2013 at 08:07 AM.
sarnali2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off